ACSMB Presents – Stupid Mac User Comment Of The Week!

Howdy there ACSMB fans! As this site continues in explode in infamy, we’ve been hit with a deluge of comments from our favorite little slice of human insanity – the Zealotinous Apple Fanboy. These range from the obvious flame-bait to genuine heatfelt sentiment for their favorite brand of PC. In all honesty – I can respect that…being able to find a little joy in major purchase, and a device you use every day – is a really special thing. While I do firmly believe that Apple sucks major ass, I do think it’s really great that you love your computers. Seriously.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions my Mac loving friends – and as is evident by this blog – we are entitled to ours! :P

And in that spirit – sometimes we get a comment that is so fervid, so impassioned with Apple agitprop that it deserves special recognition. The time and effort involved in refuting our irrefutable truth is so emblazoned in their words that when reading it you can actually picture a clone of David Arquette hunched over his PowerBook like a man posessed, furious that anyone would dare insult the Bullshit Factory at Cupertino.



It is with great pride and honor that I present to you, our loyal ACSMB fans, the very first installment of the Stupid Mac User Comment Of The Week! Please, do this poster the honor of reading his ardent quarrel in detail – for it is without a doubt a masterpiece of delusion, a true chef d’oeuvre of asininity!



Originally posted by user DeusExMachina in response to: Building A Mac Killer – Part IIb

Normally I don’t bother to reply to posts by people who wear their biases so overtly on their sleeves, but this particular article is so full of half truths and inaccuracies, stated as unequivocal facts, that it bears examination.
Leaving alone for the moment the fact that your “comparable systems” are not comparable by spec, the fact that you choose to compare a BYO component system to a brand name system is bogus from the start. It is not an indictment of Apple, per se, that their system cost would be higher than your custom built system, but of ready-made systems in general. You could make a similar complaint about brand name Windows boxes from any PC manufacturer, HP Dell, Gateway, whatever. The issue is not mac vs. winPC, and is thus not even remotely germane.
That said, let’s examine the “comparable system” you listed anyway. First, you compare a mail order retailer vs the OEM brand name manufacturer. As with the point above, this is another bogus comparison. But that aside, if you are going to pick a cheap mail order firm like New Egg, then it is only fair to shop around for the mac. A very cursory search turns up that several sites, such as macmall, sell the system for as little as $1,144, $55 less than your quote. In addition, this system comes with additional items conveniently not included in your comparison. First, there is the Apple remote. Using New Egg again, that requires that you add about $30 to your home built system, and take up a PC slot or USB port for the infrared receiver. The imac includes firewire 400/800 ports, adding another $50 to your system cost, and taking up another PC slot. In addition, the mac comes with a free $100 printer. Then there is the built in iSight. Adding a camera of equivalent quality would add significantly to your system cost, but we’ll allow for a little leeway, and just add a cheap video camera, say for $30. As others have noted, you would also have to add in a WiFi/Bluetooth card, taking yet another one or two PC slots/USB ports, and adding more to your quoted cost. Being generous again, let’s say $45. Adding some cheap speakers and a microphone adds another $20 bucks plus shipping to your system.
All this leaves aside the fact that your “comparable” system actually ships for $882, not $867 as you cite. It is telling that you choose not to really configure a comparable system, and speaks to your obvious agenda.
So where does that leave us? Your “comparable” system comes in at $1157, at a bare minimum (and realistically more) slightly more than the imac. This does not even take into account such things as the difference between slot loading DVD drives (which are a necessity on an all-in-one, such as the imac) and the tray loader you chose. This would add $43 to your cost, and reduce your write speed down to 8x, equivalent to the imac. Likewise, it also does not take into account that the imac has the USB ports on separate busses, instead of on the same bus. Nor does it take into account that the imac is available with free shipping. Shipping your components to my house would run me over $32 additional. It also does not take into account intangibles like footprint, resale value, iLife, and other things that are the standard response to all the rants (yours is hardly original) of this kind. It is not necessary to even address these intangibles, since a cost comparison of tangibles alone puts the imac on a par with your ready made system. The fact that a brand-name system can compete in this regard against a BYO machine, far from confirming your original thesis, serves to highlight how baseless your charges are, and how ill-informed your arguments are.

And just like that, you $299 price premium evaporated into vapour.

Now let’s look at your total lack of knowledge about Apple hardware. It has already been pointed out that all macs have been shipping with a five button mouse standard for YEARS now. Your failure not only to know this, but to criticize Apple in this regard highlights the legitimacy of your claims,
You further state:

“You are confined to the 20″ display that you purchased with the computer. As LCD prices continue to fall, you might want to ad a larger main display in the future. With the iMac, you’re SOL. (that’s ’shit out of luck’, apple fans!)”

Do you bother to check your facts (or your lack thereof) before you post? Seriously, do you? All imacs come with a built in Mini-DVI port, offering not only the ability to connect an additional digital monitor in either mirror or extended desktop mode (either of which void your above complaint) but also offers VGA, S-video, and analog video ports. In fact, the imac can accommodate analogue resolutions up to 2048 x 1536.
You then write:

” I see absolutely no point to the ‘all-in-one’ design other than someone who thinks paying a premium for a computer that will depreciate faster than their new car and in a few years be a useless household decoration is somehow cool. If that’s you – you’re an idiot. I’m sorry, but…you are one big gigantic freakin’ idiot.”

Um… ahem. Let’s look at this. If you had bothered to do even a few minutes of research, as opposed to just pulling BS out of your ass, you would know that mac of all kinds hold their resale value an order of magnitude better than ANY wintel machine of any brand. Macs of five years ago still sell for at least 50%, if not more, of their original sales price. This is most certainly NOT the case for commodity PCs. I know this empirically, since I get my Windows/Linux boxes from the best source for such things, from the curb on trash day when people throuw out their commodity hardware, since it has essentially ZERO resale value.

And of course, the Stupid Mac User Comment of the Week just wouldnt be complete without the ACSMB Response Of The Week, now would it? :P

DeusEx, I’ll just take your little spiel apart paragraph by paragraph rather than try to write a lofty retort that makes it sound like Ive been sipping my afternoon tea with a 10lb cockroach up my ass for the past 20 years:


Normally I don’t bother to reply to posts by people who wear their biases so overtly on their sleeves, but this particular article is so full of half truths and inaccuracies, stated as unequivocal facts, that it bears examination.
Leaving alone for the moment the fact that your “comparable systems” are not comparable by spec, the fact that you choose to compare a BYO component system to a brand name system is bogus from the start. It is not an indictment of Apple, per se, that their system cost would be higher than your custom built system, but of ready-made systems in general. You could make a similar complaint about brand name Windows boxes from any PC manufacturer, HP Dell, Gateway, whatever. The issue is not mac vs. winPC, and is thus not even remotely germane.

Actually, I do make similar complaints about other OEM manufacturers – if you actually read the whole article you’d have realized that. But – this site isnt called Dell Can Suck My Balls now is it? It is actually an indictment of Apple, per se, that their system cost is higher than the custom built system – because it’s higher than most brand name manufactuers that spec out the same as well. In my humble opinion, they all suck – but Apple sucks the most, and that’s why I feel compelled to bring truth to the masses, and set them free from the Cupertino BS Machine. I’ll give you credit though – germane is a pretty cool word.

That said, let’s examine the “comparable system” you listed anyway. First, you compare a mail order retailer vs the OEM brand name manufacturer. As with the point above, this is another bogus comparison. But that aside, if you are going to pick a cheap mail order firm like New Egg, then it is only fair to shop around for the mac. A very cursory search turns up that several sites, such as macmall, sell the system for as little as $1,144, $55 less than your quote. In

Well – I could comb through www.pricewatch.com and nail the absolute rock bottom price for each component in the BYO system as well, knocking off at least another $50 – $100. Going through all that would have made the article unnecessarily obsfucated – kind of like your post. Because capitalism is such a great thing , you can shop around for the best price on anything. Macs AND PC components. Had you known anything about building a PC, or – read the article – you probably would have realized that and not claimed the crown of Captain Obvious there bud.

In addition, this system comes with additional items conveniently not included in your comparison. First, there is the Apple remote. Using New Egg again, that requires that you add about $30 to your home built system, and take up a PC slot or USB port for the infrared receiver. The imac includes firewire 400/800 ports, adding another $50 to your system cost, and taking up another PC slot. In addition, the mac comes with a free $100 printer. Then there is the built in iSight. Adding a camera of equivalent quality would add significantly to your system cost, but we’ll allow for a little leeway, and just add a cheap video camera, say for $30. As others have noted, you would also have to add in a WiFi/Bluetooth card, taking yet another one or two PC slots/USB ports, and adding more to your quoted cost. Being generous again, let’s say $45. Adding some cheap speakers and a microphone adds another $20 bucks plus shipping to your system.

I hate to keep repeating myself – but did you even read the article? I specifically recognize the iMac’s firewire ports and explain that any number of features can be had with careful motherboard selection and/or expansion cards for the PC. Like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128067

That’s a $154 motherboard. There’s your 2 IEE1394 ports…and also 8 SATA2 3.0GB ports (That means expansion for up to 8 hard drives for those who don’t know), 2 PCI Express x16 slots, 3 PCI Express x1 slots, 2 PCI slots, room for up to 8GB of system RAM, 6 USB Ports, and an onboard Intel Matrix RAID controller. How much would all that cost to get on your iMac? If you actually could get those features on an iMac!

And since when did an add-on card for Firewire ports cost $50? Did you even research your statements before you decided to form your pathetically weak argument? Look at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124003

12 bucks son. And it’s got THREE IEE1394 ports. Add that to the motherboard listed above and you could have 5. Can you do that with the iMac?

So that leaves us with the iSight and the Remote – which I admit I did not talk about. I figured, that anyone who actually read the article would realize that the intention was to impress upon people that by designing your own PC – you have the choice of what components you want to ad to your system. The iSight is far from being anything spectacular – there’s a myriad of webcams available that would more than surpass it an a nominal cost, like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826105033

And the wi-fi/bluetooth – which can also be inclusive with the right motherboard selection. Or installed via expansion options, as you mentioned…for $12, not $45:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=bluetooth&bop=And&Order=PRICE

You’ve also made it sound as if taking up an expansion port with a wi-fi card is some how a detractor from a BYO PC-uh…that’s what expansion ports are there for bud. At least a tower-based computer HAS expansion ports.

All this leaves aside the fact that your “comparable” system actually ships for $882, not $867 as you cite. It is telling that you choose not to really configure a comparable system, and speaks to your obvious agenda.

Price quotes on PC hardware are never fixed – they rise and fall based on current market demand and the release of new technology. Again, if you had ever even attempted to look beyond your Apple-colored glasses you might have realized that. When the article was written, one of those components may have been a few dollars cheaper. Why don’t you try checking that NewEgg wishlist in a month when the prices on harddrives, RAM, and the CPU drop some more…I can guarantee the system will be a few dollars cheaper. That iMac is still going to run you $1199 though…Apple doesnt pass its savings onto its customers.

So where does that leave us? Your “comparable” system comes in at $1157, at a bare minimum (and realistically more) slightly more than the imac. This does not even take into account such things as the difference between slot loading DVD drives (which are a necessity on an all-in-one, such as the imac) and the tray loader you chose. This would add $43 to your cost, and reduce your write speed down to 8x, equivalent to the imac. Likewise, it also does not take into account that the imac has the USB ports on separate busses, instead of on the same bus. Nor does it take into account that the imac is available with free shipping. Shipping your components to my house would run me over $32 additional. It also does not take into account intangibles like footprint, resale value, iLife, and other things that are the standard response to all the rants (yours is hardly original) of this kind. It is not necessary to even address these intangibles, since a cost comparison of tangibles alone puts the imac on a par with your ready made system. The fact that a brand-name system can compete in this regard against a BYO machine, far from confirming your original thesis, serves to highlight how baseless your charges are, and how ill-informed your arguments are.

I’ll keep it simple for ya:

  • Footprint – PC’s can be built into any number of small form factor cases. An iMac setup still looks like ass with all the wires hanging out all over, unless you want to add wireless connectivity for another $50. The system spec’d out in the ‘Building a Mac Killer’ article did have a wireless keyboard and mouse, btw. Something else that you failed to notice. I would think that the possibility of future upgradability and a choice of custom components (including a video card that doesnt suck) would more than make up for the worthlessness of having a PC built into the back of a monitor.
  • The DVD drive – when building a system into a tower case, why would anyone choose a slower, more expensive slot loading DVD drive? Again, the concept of the article was not to directly mimic the Apple hardware, but show how a system with similar performance specs could be built for much less. It’s not my fault that Apple thought limiting the resources of the iMac and building an all-in-one design that couldnt be upgraded is a good thing. Well, maybe it’s a good thing for them. After all – if you did want more out of your iMac you’d have to buy a new one. Thank goodness for that resale value huh?
  • USB Ports – A PC’s USB ports are generally on separate busses to there champ. Again, the concept of the article that you obviously didnt comprehend was to show that by building a PC, you have a CHOICE of configuration. There are far too many Southbridge configurations on far too many motherboards for me to list here. And uh…what if you want to add more USB ports to your iMac?
  • iLife – Sucks.
  • Resale Value – I admit, the resale value of a Mac is decent compared to other OEM systems. That’s because mac freaks really don’t know much about computer hardware, and think that by spending extra on the Apple brand they are somehow getting a crazy deal vs the price of a new Mac. When in reality, they’re paying more for a system that is greviously outdated compared to a PC that you could – as you put it – find in the garbage.
  • Shipping – I hate to say it again but if you READ THE ARTICLE you’d see that I actually rounded up the final cost of the system to $900 – more than enough to cover shipping.
  • Printer – I did not match Apple’s $100 rebate on a printer, because that offer expires in Jaurary 2008. You can find great temporary rebates on PC compents as well, but focusing on that would have made the article unfair and outdated.
  • Now let’s look at your total lack of knowledge about Apple hardware. It has already been pointed out that all macs have been shipping with a five button mouse standard for YEARS now. Your failure not only to know this, but to criticize Apple in this regard highlights the legitimacy of your claims,

    Did you read the comments? If you had, you’d have realized that the one button mouse bit was just a ploy to aggrevate Mac crazies like you. Considering the amount of hate mail Ive received this week – it worked perfectly. :D

    Do you bother to check your facts (or your lack thereof) before you post?

    Yes, i do!

    Seriously, do you?

    I said yes!! Geez!! Are you deaf too?

    All imacs come with a built in Mini-DVI port, offering not only the ability to connect an additional digital monitor in either mirror or extended desktop mode (either of which void your above complaint) but also offers VGA, S-video, and analog video ports. In fact, the imac can accommodate analogue resolutions up to 2048 x 1536.

    Did you READ my initial complaint, Mr. Smarty Pants? You CAN’T change the main monitor on the iMac, because its an ALL-IN-ONE design. You can add and additional one, sure…but what if you want to REPLACE the main display as larger and better displays become affordable? What are you going to do – just turn off the main iMac display and push the whole unit off to the side? Would that make sense? That would not only shitcan the iMac small footprint benefit, but it would look absolutely retarded.

    Not to mention that mini-DVI port is a video output for the lame duck POS ATI HD2400 video card…which you again CAN’T UPGRADE, but I digress…

    Um… ahem. Let’s look at this. If you had bothered to do even a few minutes of research, as opposed to just pulling BS out of your ass, you would know that mac of all kinds hold their resale value an order of magnitude better than ANY wintel machine of any brand. Macs of five years ago still sell for at least 50%, if not more, of their original sales price. This is most certainly NOT the case for commodity PCs. I know this empirically, since I get my Windows/Linux boxes from the best source for such things, from the curb on trash day when people throuw out their commodity hardware, since it has essentially ZERO resale value.

    Dude…did you really think ‘Um…ahem’ before you typed it? Do you realize this paragraph reads like you are a pretentious mac user? Oh wait…you ARE a pretentious mac user. Plenty of other Mac fans have made very valid points on this website without sounding like they were sipping espresso with their pinky in the air and a wearing powdered wig.

    Listen chuckles, Ill say it again: If you are buying a computer with resale value in mind, you are an idiot. If you buy a used mac, and pay all that money for an equally spec’d PC you could ‘find in the trash’, you are an idiot. Do you realize that with this extreemly lengthy, poorly researched, and pompously written drivel you have essentialy insulted all of your Mac using friends?

    I believe that it is you sir, who have failed to research and understand the technology that you so vehemently support. It is you sir, who have failed to read the article and realize that true gravity of what I was saying. It is you sir, who have degraded the world’s perception of your Mac using community with your pretentious prating and it is YOU SIR, who can suck my balls!

    And just like that, you $299 price premium evaporated into vapour.

    And just like that – You’ve become the ACSMB Stupid Mac User Commentor of the Week! Congratulations, DeusExMachina! For this weeks prize, feel free to choose any merchandise item from the ACSMB Store!! . Just shoot me your address and choice of merchandise (may I suggest one of those sweet mugs?) to :


    admin@apple.cansuckmyballs.com

    And we’ll get your item right out to ya via USPS Priority mail!

    Congratulations Stupid Mac User Of The Week!

    79 Responses to “ACSMB Presents – Stupid Mac User Comment Of The Week!”

    1. I love my mac – but man DeusExMachina just got PWNED!!! lol…

    2. Funny how you conveniently move the goal posts when your point is demonstrated to be without merit.
      Your rant in response to my post essentially boils down to “Of course I didn’t include everything, but I could have if I wanted to. Motherboard X is available that has that feature.”
      Then why, pray tell, did you choose not to use that motherboard in your comparison? Instead you chose one that did not compare to the imac. From your own statement of purpose:
      “Today, we’ll examine the actual cost that an individual might expect to pay when purchasing each component in an iMac.”

      You then proceed to do nothing of the kind. Instead you admit that you make comparisons between non-equivalent hardware. That in and of itself makes your point invalid.
      But let’s address the content of your diatribe (ignoring, for the most part, the senseless ad hominem, since your decision to resort to such tactics speaks for itself, and makes my point far more succinctly than I could hope.)

      First though, if you are going to respond point by point, it serves no purpose, besides a waste of bandwidth, to post the full text first.

      “Actually, I do make similar complaints about other OEM manufacturers – if you actually read the whole article you’d have realized that. But – this site isnt called Dell Can Suck My Balls now is it? It is actually an indictment of Apple, per se, that their system cost is higher than the custom built system – because it’s higher than most brand name manufactuers that spec out the same as well. In my humble opinion, they all suck – but Apple sucks the most, and that’s why I feel compelled to bring truth to the masses, and set them free from the Cupertino BS Machine. I’ll give you credit though – germane is a pretty cool word.”

      I did read your full article, paragraph by painful paragraph. Perhaps your higher faculties were on hiatus when you were writing it. Your stated purpose of the article was to examine the cost of the imac. Making this comparison to component vendors is simply irrelevant (as in not germane, glad you looked it up.) The point is further eroded by the fact that, as demonstrated, Apple’s price is very close to your itemized list. Certainly you present NO credible evidence, and in fact present no evidence at all, that your claim that Apple’s systems are the highest in price relative to component cost. In fact, no where is there any mention of even a single vendor’s competing system. Just saying something does not make it so.

      “Well – I could comb through http://www.pricewatch.com and nail the absolute rock bottom price for each component in the BYO system as well, knocking off at least another $50 – $100. Going through all that would have made the article unnecessarily obsfucated – kind of like your post. Because capitalism is such a great thing , you can shop around for the best price on anything. Macs AND PC components. Had you known anything about building a PC, or – read the article – you probably would have realized that and not claimed the crown of Captain Obvious there bud.

      This would not prove any point, and it is a sad indictment of the US educational system that you think that it would. First, shaving $50-$100 off the price would still leave the Apple imac within a few dollars in cost. Your components would come in at $1189, with shipping. Taking even the higher estimate of cost reduction leaves you with $1089. Simple arithmetic shows that this is only $55 less than the cost of the imac. This essentially insignificant difference in cost is more than made up for for many people in the fact that you now have all your parts from a single vendor, with arguably far better customer service than you can hope to find from your myriad, disparate, most likely foreign, vendors.
      I am fully aware of how to build a PC. I do it on a regular basis, as I sell custom systems, from mini Via boards in custom enclosures all the way up to liquid cooled 8-16 processor server components. It is funny that PC weenies invariably fall back on the IBMO (I build my own) argument, and act like it is some major accomplishment. A trained marmoset could assemble a PC. What is so great an accomplishment in knowing “Lefty loosey, righty tighty?” and plugging rectangular plugs into rectangular sockets? It never ceases to amaze me that people think this is such an accomplishment, bud.

      “That’s a $154 motherboard. There’s your 2 IEE1394 ports…and also 8 SATA2 3.0GB ports (That means expansion for up to 8 hard drives for those who don’t know), 2 PCI Express x16 slots, 3 PCI Express x1 slots, 2 PCI slots, room for up to 8GB of system RAM, 6 USB Ports, and an onboard Intel Matrix RAID controller. How much would all that cost to get on your iMac? If you actually could get those features on an iMac!
      And since when did an add-on card for Firewire ports cost $50? Did you even research your statements before you decided to form your pathetically weak argument? Look at this:
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124003
      12 bucks son. And it’s got THREE IEE1394 ports. Add that to the motherboard listed above and you could have 5. Can you do that with the iMac?”
      *Sigh. Again, if you are going to switch the game in mid field, you can hardly claim to have made your original point. If you were going to use the mobo in the comparison, then you should have done so. You did not.
      That said, lets examine the above example of your inability to make factually correct arguments.
      Your $12 card does not meet the criteria necessary to be included in the comparison. If you had actually looked at the imac specs with any sort of attention to detail, you would have seen that the imacs have firewire 800 ports. How many firewire 800 ports does your new mobo entrant have? How many firewire 800 ports does your card have? You don’t get to just pick and choose which ports you are going to replicate if you are going to do an honest comparison. Then again, my point is that an honest comparison was never you intent.
      Your are an intellectual fraud.

      “So that leaves us with the iSight and the Remote – which I admit I did not talk about. I figured, that anyone who actually read the article would realize that the intention was to impress upon people that by designing your own PC – you have the choice of what components you want to ad to your system. The iSight is far from being anything spectacular – there’s a myriad of webcams available that would more than surpass it an a nominal cost, like this one:
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826105033

      Um, no, your original intention was not to impress that upon people. Your STATED purpose, as above, was to “examine the actual cost that an individual might expect to pay when purchasing each component in an iMac.” You did not even come close to doing this. Perhaps it is you who needs to read his own writing.
      As for your suggested camera, it is hard to judge, seeing as how that link is not static, which anyone who understood net protocols would know, and thus brings up different things to different people, in my case a list of various optical computer mice.
      That said, it really does not make much difference, as it still does not change the fact that you failed to include it in your spec list, which makes you list duplicitous, at best.

      “And the wi-fi/bluetooth – which can also be inclusive with the right motherboard selection. Or installed via expansion options, as you mentioned…for $12, not $45:
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=bluetooth&bop=And&Order=PRICE
      You’ve also made it sound as if taking up an expansion port with a wi-fi card is some how a detractor from a BYO PC-uh…that’s what expansion ports are there for bud. At least a tower-based computer HAS expansion ports.”

      First, again, you attempt the same bait and switch. Not only do the USB dongles you link to cost more than you quite, but, more importantly, it does not address the issue. To match the imac specs, the machine must do both bluetooth and wifi, not one or the other.
      And taking up a PC slot IS an issue, since it counters the inevitable argument, that you yourself made above, that having expansion slots is a plus. Ignoring the fact that almost no one bothers to expand their systems in this was, if you insist on doing s, it negates this advantage, thus making your above argument irrelevant. After making your system meet the imac’s specs, you will NOT have the slots or ports you claim. Your voodoo math aside.

      “Price quotes on PC hardware are never fixed – they rise and fall based on current market demand and the release of new technology. Again, if you had ever even attempted to look beyond your Apple-colored glasses you might have realized that. When the article was written, one of those components may have been a few dollars cheaper. Why don’t you try checking that NewEgg wishlist in a month when the prices on harddrives, RAM, and the CPU drop some more…I can guarantee the system will be a few dollars cheaper. That iMac is still going to run you $1199 though…Apple doesnt pass its savings onto its customers.”

      And in said allotted time period, the imac, while still retailing for the same price, will more than likely have different specs, such as, say, a larger hard drive, more RAM, or a faster CPU. Claiming that Apple does not pass savings along to customers just shows that you don’t pay much attention to specs. But that has already been made amply apparent.

      “I’ll keep it simple for ya:
      Footprint – PC’s can be built into any number of small form factor cases. An iMac setup still looks like ass with all the wires hanging out all over, unless you want to add wireless connectivity for another $50. I would think that the possibility of future upgradability and a choice of custom components (including a video card that doesnt suck) would more than make up for the worthlessness of having a PC built into the back of a monitor.
      The DVD drive – when building a system into a tower case, why would anyone choose a slower, more expensive slot loading DVD drive? Again, the concept of the article was not to directly mimic the Apple hardware, but show how a system with similar performance specs could be built for much less. It’s not my fault that Apple thought limiting the resources of the iMac and building an all-in-one design that couldnt be upgraded is a good thing. Well, maybe it’s a good thing for them. After all – if you did want more out of your iMac you’d have to buy a new one. Thank goodness for that resale value huh?”

      Your stupid condescension aside, lets look at this.
      PCs CAN be built into a number of footprints. Your stated goal was a comparison of components, and you chose a non-comparable system. Regardless of what form factors PCs CAN have, your stated system has the form factor that it has. No amount of distracting rhetoric can change that.

      “Again, the concept of the article was not to directly mimic the Apple hardware, but show how a system with similar performance specs could be built for much less.”

      And again, no it wasn’t. Your stated ráison d’être WAS to mimic the imac. Otherwise, your article is pointless. Certainly it would have been more appropriate to have chosen a mac mini if your stated purpose was as above.
      Once again, you unscrupulously try to move the goal posts, and try to conceal the fact behind asinine histrionics.
      Also, stating that the imac is not upgradable is just moronic.

      “USB Ports – A PC’s USB ports are generally on separate busses to there champ. Again, the concept of the article that you obviously didnt comprehend was to show that by building a PC, you have a CHOICE of configuration. ”

      Um, no they aren’t, and again, no it wasn’t.

      If I wanted to add more USB ports to the mac, I’d do what I’d do with a PC, ad a USB hub. If I needed so many ports that would not be sufficient, I would not have gotten an imac. So what?

      “Resale Value – I admit, the resale value of a Mac is decent compared to other OEM systems. That’s because mac freaks really don’t know much about computer hardware, and think that by spending extra on the Apple brand they are somehow getting a crazy deal vs the price of a new Mac. ”

      It does not matter what the reason is. It makes no difference if people buy used macs because the great C’thulu instructed all it’s followers to buy macs to drive up their price. The fact remains they retain their resale value far better than PCs, which makes you, once again, wrong.

      “I hate to say it again but if you READ THE ARTICLE you’d see that I actually rounded up the final cost of the system to $900 – more than enough to cover shipping.”

      Which is irrelevant, since the final cost of the system is NOT $869, $900, or anything close. As demonstrated, a feature for feature comparable system, as called for in your original article, would cost closer to $1189, not $900.

      “Printer – I did not match Apple’s $100 rebate on a printer, because that offer expires in Jaurary 2008. You can find great temporary rebates on PC compents as well, but focusing on that would have made the article unfair and outdated.”

      First, if you had read my post, you would have noticed right at the beginning, that I was NOT purchasing the system from Apple. But rather from an independent retailer. Second, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that the free printer is a routine incentive on mac systems, and has been available for years, and is in no danger of disappearing in January, or any time soon.

      “Now let’s look at your total lack of knowledge about Apple hardware. It has already been pointed out that all macs have been shipping with a five button mouse standard for YEARS now. Your failure not only to know this, but to criticize Apple in this regard highlights the legitimacy of your claims,
      Did you read the comments? If you had, you’d have realized that the one button mouse bit was just a ploy to aggrevate Mac crazies like you. Considering the amount of hate mail Ive received this week – it worked perfectly. ”

      This just makes you a troll, hardly a bragging point. What’s worse, while it may make sense to YOU as a defense against being incorrect, simply saying “I meant to be wrong” is hardly the greatest rhetorical ploy. It is, at best, juvenile.

      “Do you bother to check your facts (or your lack thereof) before you post?
      Yes, i do!”

      I think it quite clear from your post that you do not.

      “Seriously, do you?
      I said yes!! Geez!! Are you deaf too?”

      Simply stating it multiple times does not make it any less incorrect.

      “Did you READ my initial complaint, Mr. Smarty Pants? You CAN’T change the main monitor on the iMac, because its an ALL-IN-ONE design. You can add and additional one, sure…but what if you want to REPLACE the main display as larger and better displays become affordable? What are you going to do – just turn off the main iMac display and push the whole unit off to the side? Would that make sense? That would not only shitcan the iMac small footprint benefit, but it would look absolutely retarded.”

      Why, yes, I DID read your initial complaint. Did you? To refresh your memory:
      “You are confined to the 20″ display that you purchased with the computer. As LCD prices continue to fall, you might want to ad a larger main display in the future. With the iMac, you’re SOL. (that’s ’shit out of luck’, apple fans!)”

      You did NOT say anything about replacing the LCD, You wrote of AD’ind [sic] one. And as stated, I am NOT SOL if I wish to add one.
      As for the rest of that ridiculous retort, are you claiming that multiple monitor setups look retarded? Are you serious? Tell that to all the engineers, stock analysts, film editors, designers, office workers, and others, who routinely use multiple monitor setups every day, and in fact make this ability a key criterion in system choice. You do know what a dual head video card is for, right?

      “Dude…did you really think ‘Um…ahem’ before you typed it? Do you realize this paragraph reads like you are a pretentious mac user? Oh wait…you ARE a pretentious mac user. Plenty of other Mac fans have made very valid points on this website without sounding like they were sipping espresso with their pinky in the air and a wearing powdered wig.”

      Do you realize that everything you right makes you sound like a pompous, ill-informed, flame-bainting, logically inept, intellectually vacuous, morally corrupt troll? Plenty of Windows fans have valid point, you, I’m afraid, are decidedly NOT amounst them.
      Besides, the way that my points come off in no way invalidates them, raised pinky or not.

      “Listen chuckles, Ill say it again: If you are buying a computer with resale value in mind, you are an idiot. If you buy a used mac, and pay all that money for an equally spec’d PC you could ‘find in the trash’, you are an idiot. Do you realize that with this extreemly lengthy, poorly researched, and pompously written drivel you have essentialy insulted all of your Mac using friends?”

      Funny, seeing as you did not make a single, factually accurate, substantive reply to anything I wrote.

    3. And I’d be more than happy to take the:
      http://www.cafepress.com/acsmb.180613777
      In medium or small, so I can stretch it out a bit.

    4. you can tell he took all night writing this :D and judging by all the big overused words it looks like this little appleing spends WAY to much time on the computer and has developed arrogant pseudo-intellectual dellusion syndrome, he has created an illusion in his mind that apple is god and hes smarter than everyone else, apparently chatrooms are his “escape from reality” :D

    5. DeusEx,

      My god man, the time you must have put into that last reply astounds me. You are, without a doubt, a modern age troubadour playing a disharmonious requiem to Apple’s false glory on a lute crafted of pure bull feces. Your soliloquy into the inane was as breathtaking as as a thick cloud of protien fueled flatulence and about as tasteful. Truly, I am speechless.

      Before I retort, I do have to conceed to you one thing: I did not do enough research before writing the ‘Building a Mac Killer’ article. Admittedly, I am not well versed in the intracacies of the iMac configration, or the best places to buy them online – because I would never consider spending my money on such an over rated piece of technological trash.

      It was a poorly planned, and yet I will still say brilliantly executed move. Without that article, you would have never spent your evening crafting your culpable replies, you would have never won that sweet T-shirt, and we would not be here having this intruiging, and yet somehow mind numbing, conversation.

      You are accusing me of not building a machine close enough to the specs of the base model iMac, or including the bundled accoessories. I admit, I am guilty of a few inaccuracies. Allow me to remedy my error with this updated price list from NewEgg.com:

      https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=6243631&WishListTitle=iMac+Killer+Basic+2

      Breaking that down for you – while at the same time showing you the basics of rudimentary artihmatic:
      (If for some reason the Links dont work for you, just search on the NewEgg item number you network guru you)

      Midtower Computer Case w/430W PSU – $27.99:
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811164073

      ECS P35T-A LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard – $74.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813135059

      SAPPHIRE 100205L Radeon HD 2400XT – $56.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814102699

      Intel Core 2 Duo E4400 Allendale 2.0GHz – $129.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115014

      Crucial 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 – $23.00
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820161400

      SAMSUNG 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – $62.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822152025

      Microsoft CA9-00001 Black PS/2 Standard Basic Keyboard and Mouse – $16.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16823109132

      Acer AL2016W Bb Black 20″ 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor – $179.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16824009121

      LG 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe – $28.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827136127

      Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate – $179.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16832116215

      ENCORE ENLWI-G(2) PCI Wireless Adapter – $13.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16833180030

      KINGWIN KBT-150M USB 2.0 Bluetooth USB2.0 Adapter – $12.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16833361001

      EPSON CX7400 All-in-one Printer/Scanner/Copier – $64.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16828103210

      iMicro IM658 1.3 MP Webcam – $14.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16826563002

      SYBA PCI 32-bit Firewire 1394b Controller Card – $33.99
      http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16815124026

      I couldnt locate a remote comparable the Apple remote on Newegg, but for $20 you could set yourself up with a nice one:
      http://www.google.com/products?q=PC+remote+control&scoring=p&sa=N&start=40

      While that should have been the initial configuration – looking over it we see that practically all of the iMac’s features are covered in this list. Wi-fi/bluetooth,remote, FW800,and the Epson CX7400 – the same printer offered by MacMall.com.

      The total cost, with shipping: $1005.55
      $105.55 over my initial estimate, but far less than your fallacious claim of $1189. Where did you get that, anyway?

      While lower model iMac is not the full $299 price premium initially stated – it is stil $193.45 more expensive from the Apple Store and $143.45 more expensive from MacMall, with their $50.00 mail in rebate. Furthermore, as stated in the article, as the feature set of the iMac expands, the costs also inflate exponentially. You can claim Apple adjusts their prices based on leading edge of technology and current market prices…but can you explain why they still charge $150 for a $25 stick of RAM?

      $133.45 is still a significant figure. While some may prefer the Mac style, OSX, or the all-in-one design and consider that amount a worthy sum – and that is perfectly fine – Others might realize that they are getting a better COMPUTER for a better price. Fancy frills and tired asthetics aside – that is what you’re buying at the heart of it.

      The system spec’d out above is not only less expensive, but still has more expansion options, more video memory and a much faster DVD burner. Mentioning the ability to easily overclock the CPU to that of the 2nd and 3rd tier iMacs – which cost several hundreds more – might be unfair. But, it is a fact and something to be considered. We could talk about because wi-fi and bluetooth are on removable adapters – they can also be easily upgraded as the protocols for those technologies improve, as they always do. Or that, for an additional $350 – $500 the Windows based system described here could have greater performance than the $2k plus iMac or even a quad-core equipped MacPro.

      All very real benefits to building your own machine…and all very real benefits that going with Apple does not offer – at least not anywhere near that price range.

      “But let’s address the content of your diatribe (ignoring, for the most part, the senseless ad hominem”

      Your diatribes contain plenty o’senseless ad hominem too there hoss! Calling me a troll, or to quote a “a pompous, ill-informed, flame-bainting, logically inept, intellectually vacuous, morally corrupt troll? ” I mean come on now…if you’re going to pull out the same guns dont cry when someone else does the same. That just proves you’re a nothing but a sesquipedalian ninconpoop.

      “Besides, the way that my points come off in no way invalidates them, raised pinky or not.”

      Haha! You admit the pinky is raised…I knew it! :P

    6. While I do think DeuxExMachina has made some valid points and that you, admin, do need to more fully research your target before launching into one of your obviously intentionally humorous rants – with this latest reply you have certainly set the matter straight.

      The parts list you presented does cover nearly all of the iMac’s features, while at the same time providing the added benefits that you stated at a lower cost. Although not as significant of a price markup as you originally stated…

      As a user of both Mac’s and PC’s, and fan of both, I think you must understand that it is best for the users of both platforms that Apple is really ramping up their competition both in terms of price, performance, and usability. Without a contender, Microsoft would sit on its laurels and the end user would be the one losing out. Because Apple is working so hard to recapture market share – we are seeing some great advances from MSFT. Quick and important improvements to Vista, and the release of the Zune2, to name two.

      While these are exciting – it would be interesting to see a product from Microsoft that did not overtly ‘steal’ an idea from a competitor. They do a great job of building a better, or at least different, mousetrap – but with all that engineering muscle you’d think they could come up with something on their own.

      Maybe that should be one of your next topics.

    7. First, my reply took all of twenty minutes to write. That you would think otherwise is telling. Then again, this is coming from someone who claims to be speechless before writing an extended reply.
      Second, it is not a question of being well versed in the technological intricacies of imac configurations. All you had to do was look at the spec list.
      As to your retort, first, I got that figure from NewEgg, substituting in components that were closer to spec to those included in the imac, such as a bluetooth adapter with EDR ($17), the better printer available with the imac (photosmart C3180), and a camera at least reasonably similar to the iSight (one that can maintain frame rate at VGA resolutions with a decent white balance and optical aspect.)
      Now, it is I guess not surprising that you price out a remote but neglect to include it in your system price. Using your figures, that takes you to 1,025.55.
      Taking the cheapest components that have even somewhat equivalent specs to the imac adds an additional $25 dollars or so (and in actuality more.) This takes you to at least $1050.
      Even using your original quote of $1005.55, with a dollar difference of $133.45, one can hardly classify this as a significant cost difference. You will be hard pressed to find a typical consumer that would think this significant relative to the added benefit of purchase of a single system from a single manufacturer. Using closer speced parts, this differential falls to $108, again, not particularly impressive relative to you initial point.
      Actually attempting a component-level comparison, as you initially claimed you were doing, completely obliterates ANY cost advantage. To wit, even if you neglect to “upgrade” to a slot-loading DVD drive, adding $40 more to your system, more significantly, you must switch from the Allendale to the more power-efficient Merom, adding over $120 to your system. This is not a trivial change (and the power-savings will actually save you money, up to 50% less money than for a desktop.) Again, this takes the cost of your “comparable” system OVER the cost of the imac. Arguing that this processor is not necessary really just reduces the debate to one of all-in-one vs component, NOT the argument you originally claimed to be making. Claiming that Apple is ripping people off, based on the components they are using, the point you CLAIMED you were making, is demonstrably absurd.
      This does not even allow for the cost differential between standard matte and CrystalBright style screens. Regardless of your particular preference, they ARE more expensive, are preferred by the average consumer, and add to the component cost, bringing it well below $100.
      Nor does this take into account the free copy of Parallels that comes with the imac, allowing you to run all your precious Windows apps, if you so choose.

      You claim significant performance differences. Interesting then that you chose the 64-bit version of Windows. Clearly you do not actually USE this version. While it works fine with 64-bit applications, very few Windows apps are 64-bit, and 32-bit apps must be run in emulation, and do so with a SIGNIFICANT performance penalty. OSX has no such performance penalty, and there is no difference in performance between older 32-bit apps and newer 64-bit ones.

      Again, your comparison in reality fails in its stated goal of criticizing the pricing of the imac’s components. Instead it only marginally succeeds in showing that building a system from components is cheaper than buying a pre-assembled system, and that all-in-ones are more expensive than component systems. This was neither your original point, nor a particularly significant one. This same argument works against pre-assembled Wintel systems, and fails as the intended indictment of Apple.
      I understand that you do not like all-in-one systems of any flavour, and no one is forcing you to use one. But for those who want one, your system is not a valid substitute, and attempting to make one with components significantly increases your cost, proving the exact opposite of your intended goal, namely that the imac is extremely cost competitive for those seeking such a system. That said, many of your complaints about such systems are misdirected. First, as pointed out by others the idea that the imac suffers from cable clutter is simply misinformed, and when compared to your assembled system, with numerous USB dongles, add on cards, connectors, and cables, rather absurd.
      Second, while you are correct that it is easier to upgrade a tower than an all-in-one, this objection is hardly significant. A number of surveys, including ones done by CNet and PCWorld IIRC, indicate that almost no one upgrades their original system configuration by opening up their cases and adding/swapping cards. Instead, by the time that such an upgrade is needed, technology has moved on to the point that most people simply upgrade to a new system, exactly as you complain about for an all-in-one. Third, it is nowhere near as difficult as you maintain to upgrade the imac. In your own example you point out that since the wireless adapters are removable, you are free to upgrade as technology advances. But what prevents me from doing the same with the imac? Are you claiming that something prevents me from plugging in the same replacement Bluetooth adapter into the imac that you are postulating upgrading to with your system? I can do this just as easily, if not more so, with the imac.
      Then again, you now admit that this is not about Apple vs Wintel PCs, but rather a dislike of all-in-ones.
      Now, I never said there were not advantages and disadvantages to these systems. I personally prefer mac pros. That said, as shown, many of your complaints are misinformed.
      As for the rest, first, you will be hard pressed finding examples of ad hominem in my post. Certainly the excerpt you quoted above is not one of them. Characterizing the content of your posts is NOT ad hominem. Nor did I whine about your use of same. Calling you to task for your use of immature rhetorical sleights is hardly whining. You are certainly free to continue to make yourself look like a jackass. Nor will you have much success finding examples of sesquipedalian writing. That you find my writing so difficult to parse seems more a comment on the failures of the US educational system than a legitimate criticism of my post.
      As an aside, nowhere did I claim I “raised my pinky,” not that such immature name-calling is even remotely relevant.

      So let’s recap:
      You write a post claiming that the imac is overpriced on a component level, and that Apple is ripping people off based on the parts they are using.
      You then fail to do so, by your own admission.
      You attempt to prove this by making a comparison of all-in-ones to tower systems, which is irrelevant, making your argument invalid.
      Nonetheless, you then put together a BYO system that is within $100 of the imac (ignoring the fact that as an all-in-one, the components, per se, are more expensive, and that using even one of these components, the Merom T7300 processor instead of the Allendale, completely negates any cost differential) and mischaracterize many of the issues with all-in-ones. While some might not characterize this as overt failure of your argument, it is certainly not particularly successful.
      You also conveniently drop from discussion the issues where you are proven wrong.
      You then attempt to “obfuscate” (your word choice, not mine) these failures by flinging epithets and misinformation.

    8. “You claim significant performance differences. Interesting then that you chose the 64-bit version of Windows. Clearly you do not actually USE this version. While it works fine with 64-bit applications, very few Windows apps are 64-bit, and 32-bit apps must be run in emulation, and do so with a SIGNIFICANT performance penalty. OSX has no such performance penalty, and there is no difference in performance between older 32-bit apps and newer 64-bit ones.”

      Where did you come up with this? I use the 64-bit version of Windows XP, and 32-bit apps work great – there is no performance difference in games, or in applications like Adobe Photoshop. More and more 64-bit apps are released all the time too – they are hardly as rare as you claim.

      “You write a post claiming that the imac is overpriced on a component level, and that Apple is ripping people off based on the parts they are using.”

      While you have shown the price difference between the lower level iMac and the DIY system to be negligible at best, you have failed to address the fact that as the performance specs of these machines increase – their prices increase at a level that is clearly inflated. The statement the author makes about “Apple charging $150 for a $25 stick of RAM” is entirely accurate. You accuse him of ‘dancing around issues’ and only discussing matters that support his claims – but you seem to do the same.

      It is certainly plausible to build a machine that can outperform the mid to high level Apple offerings for much less – although at the base level they are indeed competitive. This holds true for nearly all OEM computers however, not just Apple.

      Considering the title of this blog is the somewhat audacious “Apple Can Suck My Balls” – I would guess the author has chosen to just focus on Apple’s shortcomings rather than argue his point against the OEM PC industry in general.

      “You are certainly free to continue to make yourself look like a jackass. Nor will you have much success finding examples of sesquipedalian writing. That you find my writing so difficult to parse seems more a comment on the failures of the US educational system than a legitimate criticism of my post.

      Why do you continue to argue with the author of this site? It would seem his intention is to get under the skin of Apple fans like yourself. Considering your lengthy replies, it is obvious you are obviously just adding to the the success of that goal.

    9. Just as an aside, I find it particularly amusing to read derogatory comments about the time spent responding to your post from someone who fails to even notice the irony that they spend the time and resources they do to maintain an entire site based on this particular obsession.

    10. DeusEx – why do you keep picking on the US Educational System? Looks like your schooling didnt teach you how to recognize an obvious attempt at messing with your head…

      “Sesquipadalean ninconpoop?” – Come on, I can just picture this guy laughing to himself as he tries to come up with new ways to engender a response from you.

    11. Stevemac:
      I suppose the mistake I am making is making it seem as if I really care all that much what he is saying. It is not so much that I am being suckered into a trap by his obvious flame bait. I guess I am coming across as being somehow offended by his statements, as if I am taking this assault on the imac personally.
      In actual fact, I am smiling to myself as I write my replies, really not caring that much about what he has to say. It is really not taking very much effort on my part to craft replies. (Maybe I should use more emoticons?
      As far as taking it personally, that would be far off base. I actually don’t care that much for the imac, and prefer the tower configuration of my MDD FW800 (although an interesting option would be to use the imac as a monitor for another system, and use the imac’s core 2 duo along with XGrid as a parallel multi-processor network).
      I too wish that Apple would place a system into the obvious gap between the mac mini and the mac pro. But recognizing that Apple lacks this machine does not equate to imac bashing, for those who benefit from its form factor, and it certainly doesn’t make the initial post in this thread any less inaccurate. It does not make his duplicitous and deceptive argument and less unscrupulous.
      My tone is just me trying to be matter-of-fact, rather than simply saying, “Dude, you’re a moron, and you’re totally wrong,” although in perhaps that is what it boils down to.

    12. My parents got me an iMac (the one being discussed here, in fact) just this past year for college. It was a great computer! I say ‘was’ because once I saw my friend’s custom Quad core PC equipped with an NVidia 8800GTX – I was blown away.

      I sold the iMac on Ebay (great resale value as DeusExMachina has said) and put the money toward a custom system, and built it myself. For a few hundred plus the sale of the iMac, I built a machine that completely blows away my iMac and can play the sickest games. Even with boot camp, this was impossible on the Mac because the GPU is so low end.

      I also go to school for graphic design, and the apps we use perform MUCH better on the overclocked quad then the did on my iMac. Even more surprising, the system seems to outpower my friends dual Xeon dual-core Mac Pro.

      Sure, OSX was nice but I do like the performance and the selection of apps that use it much better. Vista really isnt that bad…not as nice as OSX but not bad.

    13. Jack:
      Vista64 runs 32-bit applications in an emulation layer called WoW64 (Windows on Windows64.) Performance of 32-bit applications in this emulation layer varies depending on the hardware drivers used (assuming they exist) and other issues. The reason that you don’t see much of a hit in games is that most of the math operations involved in the graphics code are either performed on the graphics card (as Direct X or other code) some with even wider data paths, or use math operations on the 32-bit chip that are already executed in 64-bits internally. PS performance likewise is helped by this and by the fact that the extra memory allocatable by Vista64 due to the 64-bit address space can be used as a scratch disk, significantly reducing disk access, and thus increasing relative performance. This is not a universal situation.
      The issue at hand here, however, is whether the author can claim that his system will significantly outperform a similar OSX system. I find this claim tenuous at best. Independent reviewers have published numerous benchmarks that refute this.

      As for dancing around issues, and the memory stick issue in particular, I believe you are a bit mistaken. First, I did address the first part of your complaint. As hardware performance increases, these increases are phased into the product line, while prices remain stable. As for Apple’s price structure for upgrade items, I am not sure why you feel I need to respond. The cost of specific items that are not required to be purchased from Apple was never the topic under discussion, and bringing up the RAM issue seems a bit like cherry picking. I am not going to defend Apple’s ridiculous prices for RAM. They sell many things, some are bargains, others are not. Some may even be rip-offs. I never claimed that Apple was sacrosanct or infallible. Clearly they overcharge for some things, including RAM. But Apple is not really in the RAM business, nor is anyone required to buy RAM from Apple. Clearly anyone who does so is foolish, when RAM can be purchased from numerous vendors for an order of magnitude less. But so what? It has nothing to do with either the author’s original argument, that Apple over charges for the imac based on the components, nor is it germane to his substitute argument that he slipped in when his original argument fell apart, that BYO tower systems are better that all-in-ones from a brand manufacturer. In fact, his point, while generally true, served to highlight Apple as a value leader, providing a complete branded system for approximately the same price as it would cost to BYO.
      I am not dancing around the issue. It never was an issue. If it is, my position is that Apple overcharges for RAM.

      “It is certainly plausible to build a machine that can outperform the mid to high level Apple offerings for much less”

      Not to open a whole new can of worms, but how is this a given? It was not addressed anywhere in this thread by anyone. I think I have clearly shown that this is NOT the case for the imac. The imac is hardly a base level machine. In fact, Apple really doesn’t make a base level machine, the mac mini notwithstanding, an obvious hole in their product line. One could easily write a critical review of Apple over this. But the mid level and high end machines were never discussed. That said, they are well represented i Apple’s product line, and cost competitive, the opinions of this site’s author notwithstanding. Many major PC reviewers, from several national publications, have examined this issue, including with BYO options, and found the mac line to be quite value competitive.
      But again, this was never the issue in this discussion.

      “Why do you continue to argue with the author of this site? It would seem his intention is to get under the skin of Apple fans like yourself. Considering your lengthy replies, it is obvious you are obviously just adding to the the success of that goal.”

      Why do I continue? Because it really does not take much effort to do it. Far from “getting under my skin,” I find the whole thing rather amusing. Again, I am not an Applyte. I have many problems with them as a company, and I really don’t care too much if people want to hate them, and are so obsessed that they need to create entire websites dedicated to bashing a company and a computer that they don’t even use. It really is a bit pathetic.
      But it is always good to engage in a little polemic from time to time. Keeps you sharp.

    14. “Vista64 runs 32-bit applications in an emulation layer called WoW64 (Windows on Windows64.) Performance of 32-bit applications in this emulation layer varies depending on the hardware drivers used (assuming they exist) and other issues. The reason that you don’t see much of a hit in games is that most of the math operations involved in the graphics code are either performed on the graphics card (as Direct X or other code) some with even wider data paths, or use math operations on the 32-bit chip that are already executed in 64-bits internally. PS performance likewise is helped by this and by the fact that the extra memory allocatable by Vista64 due to the 64-bit address space can be used as a scratch disk, significantly reducing disk access, and thus increasing relative performance. This is not a universal situation.
      The issue at hand here, however, is whether the author can claim that his system will significantly outperform a similar OSX system. I find this claim tenuous at best. Independent reviewers have published numerous benchmarks that refute this.”

      I’m aware of how 32 bit apps run in the 64-bit windows environment – and considering Vista64 is my main OS, I can tell you that I am not seeing any noticeable performance hits compared to Vista32. In fact, the whole OS feels more responsive as a whole. I would like to read some of these reviews that show OSX outperforming Windows on identical hardware. If anything, I’d think they’d be pretty much neck and neck on most benchmarks.

      “Not to open a whole new can of worms, but how is this a given? It was not addressed anywhere in this thread by anyone. I think I have clearly shown that this is NOT the case for the imac. The imac is hardly a base level machine. In fact, Apple really doesn’t make a base level machine, the mac mini notwithstanding, an obvious hole in their product line. One could easily write a critical review of Apple over this. But the mid level and high end machines were never discussed. That said, they are well represented i Apple’s product line, and cost competitive, the opinions of this site’s author notwithstanding. Many major PC reviewers, from several national publications, have examined this issue, including with BYO options, and found the mac line to be quite value competitive.”

      I would consider the iMac a lower level machine based on the current prices for quad-core CPU’s, NVidia 8800 series GPUs, and DDR2/3 RAM. The only thing that could come close to a system based on these components would be a MacPro, and it would be far more expensive – and still not have the GPU horsepower. I believe the author of this site did bring that up at some point. While Apple may be competitive at some price points, this is not a constant throughout their product line.

      “Why do I continue? Because it really does not take much effort to do it. Far from “getting under my skin,” I find the whole thing rather amusing. Again, I am not an Applyte. I have many problems with them as a company, and I really don’t care too much if people want to hate them, and are so obsessed that they need to create entire websites dedicated to bashing a company and a computer that they don’t even use. It really is a bit pathetic.”

      The whole basis of this site seems to be humor over any kind over hard factual information. I mean come on – there’s a ‘deep thoughts’ widget over to the right. The admin of this site writes ‘poetry’ every Friday…I ofted revisit just to see what absurd postings will come up next. There are a lot of anti-Apple sites on the net – this one seems by far to be the most colorful – if not the one that makes the least sense.

    15. Jack:
      You are misreading me. I am not saying that OSX outperforms, I am refuting that Vista64 outperforms. My position is similar to yours, that they are about equivalent, with application specific differences.
      Also, I do not consider a $1k plus system to be lower level. That classification goes to the sub $600 systems, like those you get on black Friday at Wal-mart, or those bargain basement HP, Dell, and E-Machines systems. I put the mid level systems in the $700-$1.5k range. As for the high end systems, GPU throughput is going to be dependent almost entirely on the graphics card. While Apple might not ship machines with the top tier cards, they are often available as an option, or can be had after-market. Certain games may, for the near future, continue to outperform on Windows, since game programmers are writing directly to the hardware, and many have no OSX specific libraries. That is fine. While I appreciate the gaming sector, the idea that it is particularly important to the entirety of the product range is a hard proposition to defend. They are, after all, games, and while they are a high profit center, they do not have a corresponding degree of market penetration.
      I really think that, for the most part, we are arguing at cross purposes.
      As for the “humor” of the site, it is presented as factual, with the humor consisting of aspersions. The author should thus be prepared to be challenged on bogus facts.
      That and he is not particularly funny. :-/

    16. I think the author is funny! What I find particularly amusing is the back and forth between DeusExMachina and the author and the others. Please keep it coming!

      You go admin, keep up the stellar work — Because of your site I purchased a Zune and sold my highly overrated iPod on ebay.

      Now, excuse me while I go pop some popcorn for the next set of comments.

    17. I’ll take it that it does not bother you that your post has been shown not to contain a single factually accurate statement, and that you have failed to contradict mine in any cogent, factually substantiated manner..

    18. DeusEx,

      While I have thoroughly enjoyed your perfervid retorts, and have taken much delight in imagining a man engaged in much mercurial self gesticulation, I have come to the consensus that maintaining our engagement is a deleterious affair. While my hatred for your favorite computer company could be enriched with much polyglot fanfare, I think it would make a better impression on the members of this fine website if I would ameliorate my fealty to the DIY PC building sector, rather than harp on the inadequacies of my bete noire – a topic of much woolgathering I assure you! However, in the end wasting energy counteracting your scolistic knowledge of technical subjects, however politic, is pure futility. You are clearly myrmidon of Apple Computers, and no amount of debate – however forcible – is going to change that fact.
      I do admit I have been somewhat ensorcell regarding our interaction, as you have proven that my soi-disant blog here is the defacto terminus for the anti-apple backlash. Arguing with you is akin to beating a valetudinarian cripple though, it is no fault of mine that your impecunious viewpoint makes about as much sense as a stentorian gaseous release wrought with false bravodo.
      We could keep going round and round with this – but as is par for this course your recidivism is increasingly inimical and amounts to much flummery.
      I believe that your lengthy oblations to this blog have failed to see the main point – that it is purely a jocund affair and that I am in no way beholden to make sense or stay on any kind of topic. I’ve had to abscond from writing any new articles actually – and while my detest for Apple is surely extant and a burning desire to lash out against their pure corporate vileness is a quotidian urge, I think that the reality distortion field that every mac fanboy seems to bathe in is truly impervious. Your purblind rhetoric aside, I can look over the agglomeration of posts here and see that most Mac fans are locked in a ceaseless truckle with Apple – almost as if Apple computers were a second Mom or Dad. Did you know that those words are simple, yet effective palindromes? They are sunshine…they are indeed.

      Anyway, while I’d like to slake your facetious physiognomy and maladroit vernacular with yet another genius paroxysm of my own – the subject matter that we’re discussing is just increasingly exiguous. In other words, I’ve become somewhat distrait although not anxious in the least – more bored, really. Your presense here, while at first a supervene occurance, has grown tiresome.

      I could care less for how you present your senseless ruckus – my bouleversement of your concepts is absolute and finite. As the title of this blog clearly states, Apple and her misguided fans can ingurgitate my cullions with a rampant and pious sincerity that is matched only by their erroneous love for abortive and overpriced technological apparatuses.

    19. LOL oh man….

    20. Dude, you’re makin’ me hit the dictionary :)

    21. Can you post a laymen’s translation please? I really don’t want to look up those words just to understand your smack down. I still think it’s funny though, and I wish to see more of these back and forths (even if I don’t fully understand all of your big words).

    22. Having access to a dictionary will not help you anymore than having access to a thesaurus helped admin, seeing as how he misused most of the words he apparently looked up in a failed attempt to appear erudite (and to sarcastically mock others.) Even the first sentence is botched.

      “While I have thoroughly enjoyed your perfervid retorts, and have taken much delight in imagining a man engaged in much mercurial self gesticulation, I have come to the consensus that maintaining our engagement is a deleterious affair.”

      “Perfervid” means intense or impassioned. It would be hard to characterize my replies as such. In fact, they come off as more decidedly cold.
      Mercurial means sudden, unpredictable changes in mood. This makes no sense in the context of the this sentence, and in fact contradicts the use of “perfervid” just prior.
      Gesticulation means speaking with one’s hands. The phrase “self gesticulation” is meaningless.
      Consensus means an agreement between parties. Unless the admin is claiming schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder (a decided possibility) saying “I have come to the consensus” is nonsense. It is just simply babble.

      I do, however, agree that this “engagement” has been “deleterious” for the admin, as he has been shown to be full of it on every point he has made. Again, he has not made a SINGLE argument that has not been shown, empirically, to be factually incorrect.

      It just gets worse as one reads through the reply. I mean, seriously, did you even bother to look up the word “polyglot” before you cut and pasted it?

      ” if I would ameliorate my fealty to the DIY PC building sector, rather than harp on the inadequacies of my bete noire – a topic of much woolgathering I assure you!”

      “Ameliorate” means to improve something that is very bad. While I agree with this assessment of his site, I somehow doubt this was his intended meaning.

      “Fealty” means loyalty to a lord. This explains his bias, and his inability to see his error.

      “bête noire” (I am assuming that you didn’t spell it correctly since, being forced to use Windows instead of a mac, unicode is difficult for you) means someone one intensely dislikes, which I assume is directed at me. What, pray tell are these inadequacies? I have empirically shown EVERY single point that you have made wrong. The inadequacy lies closer to home, my friend.
      But I agree that you’re attempt to “harp” on these inadequacies would be “woolgathering,” since that means to engage in aimless or absentminded dreaming.

      *Sigh

      The problem with attempting to look intelligent when you are not is that, unless you are very careful, you run the risk of proving the opposite point.
      Consider it proved.

    23. DeusExMachina – once again, you’ve responded to a humerous post by admin with a reply that makes it sound like – how did he put it? Like you have a 10lb cockroach up your butt?

      I know what most of those words mean – and in the context of that post they do make sense and are really pretty funny. You completely missed:

      “I believe that your lengthy oblations to this blog have failed to see the main point – that it is purely a jocund affair and that I am in no way beholden to make sense or stay on any kind of topic.”

      He tells you right there that this whole thing is a joke and he’s not even attempting to make sense – why didnt you reference that in your reply? Did you not understand it?

      Rather than post something creative that tried one up admin on all levels, you popped open your dictionary and tried to ridicule his verbiage. While I agree with you on many points concerning the iMac, I have to side with Admin as far as who is getting the better of who in this debate.

      When a guy writes:

      “I could care less for how you present your senseless ruckus – my bouleversement of your concepts is absolute and finite. As the title of this blog clearly states, Apple and her misguided fans can ingurgitate my cullions with a rampant and pious sincerity that is matched only by their erroneous love for abortive and overpriced technological apparatuses.”

      I mean come on…’ingurgitate my cullions?’ Your responses don’t just sound decidedely cold, they sound like you’re completely missing the point.

    24. “Gesticulation means speaking with one’s hands. The phrase “self gesticulation” is meaningless.”

      Wouldn’t ‘self gesticulation’ mean talking to yourself with your hands? And ‘mecurial self gesticulation’ would mean ‘speaking to yourself with your hands in an erratic manner’?

      The mental image that projects is pretty silly if you ask me – and those words really do make sense in the context of that sentance. I mean when I read your uptight posts, and then imagine a nerdy guy spazzing out and speaking to himself with sign language…I’m sorry man but that’s just hilarious to me.

      ‘Ameliorate’ means to improve, not specifically ‘improve something that is very bad’. ‘Fealty’ does mean loyalty to a lord, but its modern meaning is just ‘loyalty’. ‘Ameliorate my fealty to the DIY PC building sector’ would mean ‘improve my loyalty to the PC building sector’…how could you not get that?

      I admit, I needed my copy of Webster’s to translate much of that post – but the definitions of the words there make total sense in the context in which they are used.

      “The problem with attempting to look intelligent when you are not is that, unless you are very careful, you run the risk of proving the opposite point.
      Consider it proved.”

      I think he just proved that you can’t compete on whatever twisted level he’s on, honestly. I’m not trying to knock you DeusEx, as I said I agree with most of your points on the Mac vs PC thing…but that last reply was just lame.

      I’m ashamed Ive actually spent this amount of time on this stupid blog…you should be too.

    25. Have you ever read these things and felt like it was your parents fighting?

      I think my Dad once said “stentorian gaseous release wrought with false bravodo” to my Mom and she started crying…

    26. Jack, first, it is not simple innocent humour when one persists in blatant, immature, and unrelenting character assassination. The fact that you find such things funny is telling. Perhaps you are forgetting the title of this particular blog?
      It is clearly not just humour, it is personal insults, whether he veils them in jokes or not. And again, he does not even have the balls to accept that he was wrong on what started this whole affair. He was shown to be factually wrong on EVERY SINGLE POINT he made. Instead he cowardly changes the subject and falls back on personal attacks, and his infantile audience just goes along.
      But for the record Jack, you are wrong as well. He is not using those words correctly, and you may need to recheck your dictionary. “Self getsticualtion makes about as much sense as “self masturbation.” Ameliorate does NOT mean “To improve,” and it actually DOES mean

    27. “infantile audience”

      Hey, I resemble that comment… and for the record, I self masturbate daily.

    28. “Jack, first, it is not simple innocent humour when one persists in blatant, immature, and unrelenting character assassination. The fact that you find such things funny is telling. Perhaps you are forgetting the title of this particular blog?”

      ‘telling’ of what? I am very well aware of the title of this blog, and rather than take offense, I laughed. I don’t see it as a serious attack on anything – more like a comedy act that dwells on negativity. If the author is trying to be serious, in either his articles or his post replies, well – then he was a moron to title his site ‘Apple Can Suck My Balls’.

      I just can’t see how you would take any of this seriously…I mean come on man – did you read the ‘poetry’? Its stupid and asinine, yes, but its far from anything serious.

      “It is clearly not just humour, it is personal insults, whether he veils them in jokes or not. And again, he does not even have the balls to accept that he was wrong on what started this whole affair. He was shown to be factually wrong on EVERY SINGLE POINT he made. Instead he cowardly changes the subject and falls back on personal attacks, and his infantile audience just goes along.”

      I think this statement is wrong as well…as he wasn’t proved wrong on every single point at all. He said you could build a DIY PC cheaper than you could buy an iMac with the same specs. You called him out on not including several components, which made his $300 difference too short. He responded with a list of components that matched the iMac, and came in right around the iMac’s price point of $1150.

      I dont see how he was wrong – he didnt do his research for sure – but he wasnt wrong on ‘every single point’ – infact you have still failed to address the fact that the DIY system will far outperform the iMac, and even the MacPro once one reaches the $1500 mark or so.

      From everything Ive seen, you’ve danced around the issues that don’t support your argument as much as he has his. The admin’s ‘dancing’ is just more entertaining to read.

      “But for the record Jack, you are wrong as well. He is not using those words correctly, and you may need to recheck your dictionary. “Self getsticualtion makes about as much sense as “self masturbation.” Ameliorate does NOT mean “To improve,” and it actually DOES mean”

      No, you’re wrong DeusEx. I’m not going to pretend to be as good a writer as you, or to know as much about computers as you do. But your reply to his big word laden post just wasn’t correct.

      Look:

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gesticulate

      Read the definitions. Gesticulate does not mean ‘self gesturing’. It means ‘to make or use gestures, esp. in an animated or excited manner with or instead of speech.’. So self gesticulation really WOULD mean talking to yourself with your hands.

      Whereas ‘masturbate’ means ‘to practice the act of masturbation’. And ‘masturbation’ means to please ones self sexually. So self gesticulation DOES make sense, while ‘self masturbation’ cancels itself out.

    29. Stop putting words in my mouth, Jack. I am DEAD serious.

    30. Hey Admin/DeusExMachina/Jack/HanSolo,

      I came across this site yesterday, and have read many of the articles and most of the comments. I do really like the content of the site, misguided as it is, and would like to see more substantive discussion like what DeusExMachina brought to the table. I really dislike what the current discussions have turned into… personal attacks and discussions about the nuances of the english language.

      I would like to try and steer things back to the debate at hand – the DIY PC vs. iMac. DeusExMachina has brought up some good points in regards to the fact that admin did not do an adequate job of building a ‘comparable’ system to the iMac as part of his comparison. He (assuming here) goes on to smash the price difference that admin claims by tacking on the additional hardware that would indeed bring it up to snuff with the iMac. I would certainly like to see a well thought response from admin on this point (I would like it without all the insults and big words if possible, but realize that may not be possible).

      DeusExMachina, I would like to see you address some parts of his original article. Originally Admin says he is doing a comparison of individual components of an iMac and a DIY PC, but according to you he leaves many features out of the equation. However, later in the article he admits ‘it’s a system that pretty much identical in hardware specs to the iMac’ and then lists some exceptions. I give you that he didn’t list all of the exceptions, but really how many average iMac users actually use Firewire or Bluetooth? I would guess it is less than 15%. I think that the best point out of Admin’s article is when he states ‘The point I’m trying to make here is that when you make the decision to educate yourself on what you’re buying, and when you decide to take the plunge into building your own machine…YOU decide the options. And YOU build the system that fits YOUR needs. Not Apple. Not Dell. Not HP. YOU.’ In my mind that is the article in a nutshell — I would like to know how you feel if you evaluate the article on based on that conclusion. BTW, I really think you have your stuff together and really enjoyed reading many of your comments. If you write elsewhere I would love to read some more (you in this context is DeusExMachina).

      Jack, Similar to Admin and DeusExMachina, I would actually like to hear some of your opinions on the Mac vs DIY PC article as it seems you are somewhat knowledgeable about computers.

      HanSolo, I wish there was a way I could filter you out as you seem to be set on just trying to egg arguments on.

      Myself? I know enough to get myself in trouble. I have built two of my own PCs and many more through my past and present jobs (not billing it as an accomplishment, just stating it for reference). I have used some Macs in the past, but none with OSX. However, I think the fact that it is gaining as much market share as it has is an indication that there isn’t enough innovation going on in the ‘other’ camp. I have recently thought about getting myself a MacBook Pro because it is a good machine, solid construction, looks good and has a great track record. Having moved to the Intel architecture presents many possiblities around running both XP and OSX on the same machine or Windows apps in Parallels, and I find that intriguing… best of both worlds, and I would certainly pay the small premium for that capability. That’s actually the part that I think Admin misses in his assessment… in fact I may have just talked myself into the purchase (can Admin dissuade me?).

      I apologize in advance if I rambled too much, but that is par for the course when I do this kind of thing. I look forward to what you all write in response,

      Frank

    31. Since I’ve been commenting on all the other threads, so I might as well weigh in here too.

      You can examine a Mac and tally up its parts cost and discover “OMG, Apple is charging hundreds of dollars more than what I can buy the raw parts for!!!” What a rip off! How dare they charge extra for configuring them in a stylish enclosure, burning the system in, and assuring that everything works as it leaves the factory so that you are up and running, networked and online, within minutes of opening the box– without having to fiddle with BIOS settings and drivers. It’s not a “Real computer” unless there is some hair-pulling, gnashing of teeth, skinned knuckles, stripped screws, and sometimes a whiff of smoke.

      If you consider your time, labor, and expertise as free, you damn well ought to be able to configure a DIY for less than the cost of a pre-assembled and warranted Macintosh. While Macs might be somewhat close in price when you attempt to exactly match configurations, one of the advantages of a DIY system is that you can save a few additional bucks by omitting or downgrading features that are unimportant to you. You also gain complete flexibility in upgrading your graphics performance, hard disk capacity, additional writable media bays, internal neon lights… whatever turns you on.

      As much as a Mac suits my purpose, there are people for whom the Mac is not appropriate. I won’t attempt dissuade someone who is willing to make the trade-off of building their own PC rather than buying a Mac. But I do find it unreasonable when DIY enthusiasts insult Mac owners (who have no desire to become experts on computer innards) for choosing a computer that meets their needs right out of the box. DIY PCs are great for technogeeks, but the Mac is the Computer for the Rest of Us.

    32. @DeusExMachina:

      Assuming you are still reading this, WOW64 is not emulation on 64-bit x86 processors. That only applies to 64-bit processors that do not use the x86 instruction set (IA-64, for example). WOW64 simply interprets API calls for 32-bit x86 processes. This is hardly a processor-intensive task.

    33. Well for some reason, WordPress will not let me post my full reply, so screw it.

    34. Since this stupid site is not letting me post my reply, I’ll try a short post.
      Jack, you write:
      “I think this statement is wrong as well…as he wasn’t proved wrong on every single point at all. He said you could build a DIY PC cheaper than you could buy an iMac with the same specs. You called him out on not including several components, which made his $300 difference too short. He responded with a list of components that matched the iMac, and came in right around the iMac’s price point of $1150.”

      Yes, he has been proved wrong. I did more than call him out for not including components. His revised list was STILL more expensive than the imac. This makes him wrong.

      :I dont see how he was wrong – he didnt do his research for sure – but he wasnt wrong on ‘every single point’ – infact you have still failed to address the fact that the DIY system will far outperform the iMac, and even the MacPro once one reaches the $1500 mark or so.”

      I have not failed to address it. His system will not significantly outperform the imac on many important benchmarks, and it will most certainly not outperform the mac pro let alone far outperform it. Just because he says so does not make it so. I have not danced around a single issue. I HAVE chosen to concentrate on the issue at hand and to not allow the admin to switch the discussion to another topic to avoid the fact that he is wrong. This is NOT dancing around an issue.
      As to the vocabulary issue, I am not incorrect. if you want to get technical, you are discussing the issue of reflexive verb construction. This construction is not correct with the word gesticulate (blah blah blah.) I attempted to address this in my post, but WordPress seems hellbent on not letting me post the entire reply. I will be surprised if this one even get through.
      But on the off chance that it does, please indicate a single relevant point where the admin was right.

    35. Maybe it was the links that cause the site not to post my replies. Let’s see:

      Ameliorate does NOT mean “To improve,” and it actually DOES mean

      “to make a bad or unpleasant situation better”

      http ://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=2497&dict=CALD

      or “the introduction of positive connotations or removal of negative ones for a word or expression.”
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameliorate\
      Even most of the dictionaries that give the more concise definition usually ameliorate this insufficiency with synonyms that make this apparent: straighten out {straighten} , rectify , mitigate , lessen , assuage , mend , help , relieve
      http ://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=ameliorate&matchtype=exact

      And in the end, I have not proved that I can not compete on “whatever twisted level he’s on,” I have merely proved that I have refused to do so.

      Being that I have shown every point that I made in the original point correct, and every point the admin made wrong, I fail to see why I should be expected to. Could I be just as insulting and act with just as much stupidity? Sure. So what?
      Why not take it to the next level, then, pointing out that I can beat his ass, and offering to do so? Would you find that an appropriate response? Seemingly. But again, why bother? The admin has shown he is an idiot by his responses, his complete inability to address key issues, and even to understand simple arguments, and his need to resort to name calling when his arguments are exposed as fraudulent. His audience, likewise.
      The internet has had a disturbing side-effect of debasing human discourse, allowing people to anonymously attack others in ways they would (hopefully) be ashamed to do in person, treating people with abject disrespect, and utterly crass, antisocial, and inexcusable rudeness, all the while cowering behind miles and miles of copper wire and optic fiber. To the extent that people do this, they debase themselves. There is no need for me to do it for them. To the extent that the audience encourages this, and even finds it amusing, they lower themselves down to this same level. I am perfectly fine with staying where I am. I am completely unconcerned with how this comes off to this rabble.
      Pwned is in the eye of the beholder.

    36. @ Frank:

      This would appear to NOT be a site for such informative and informed discourse, but I will address your points:

      First, it is more than that the admin leaves things out. He states his purpose as a component by component price comparison, and then completely fails to do so. More importantly, he did not just leave out a few features, he mischaracterized a great number of them. That said, you are forgetting some very important things. You claim that only a very small percentage (15%) of people actually use many of them, such as firewire and bluetooth. This number is very low. Firewire is the standard interface for almost all camcorders, and the mac is very commonly used by home users to edit video footage, since it comes with iMovie and iDVD free. Bluetooth is used by the Apple wireless keyboard and mouse. More importantly, Apple has a pretty good track record of including technology in their machines that will become standard interfaces. Remember that when USB first came out, Apple was pretty much the only company selling machines with the ports. In fact, Apple is universally credited with having created the market for USB devices. Without Apple’s championing of the technology, you would all still be stuck with parallel port printers and RS-232 devices.USB add-on cards were expensive back then, and scarce. Without Apple, the economies of scale would never have kicked in to allow the cheap USB card available today. The same is true for Wi-Fi. Firewire (or iLink) is a similar, though less pervasive item. Bluetooth, though NOT primarily driven by Apple, is extremely common on mobile devices, and will only become more so.
      So including these things in an all-in-one makes perfect sense.
      The admin’s point about being able to configure your own DIY system is NOT a useful one, since if that is what you want to do, it makes no sense to buy an all-in-one, so making the comparison to an imac is disingenuous. The admin stated his purpose in the original thread, and it was not DIY vs. all-in-one, so this point really is misplaced.
      That said, if it were not for companies like Apple, and yes, Dell, Gateway, HP etc., that manufacture systems and not components, there would be no component market. The reason that market exists at all is because they follow a path blazed by the systems manufacturers.
      People like the admin like to think that it is some great technical feat that they “build” their own machine. Being that this involves little more than knowing which way to turn a philips head screwdriver, and inserting rectangular plugs into like sockets, I fail to see why this is any kind of accomplishment. I wired my own when I was 12 in 1978 from separate ICs, resistors, transistors, capacitors, and wire-wrap perfboard and programmed it with hardwired toggle switches and a SPST read/write switch. Output was read off eight bus sensing LEDs (ah the glory days of the Z-80!) That is building your own. Mounting a logic board in a prefitted case and plugging in a prefabricated power supply isn’t.

      @Brett
      This is not the issue. Macs in general can be upgraded just as easily as their PC brethren. Just not the all-in-one imac. The issue is not mac vs. PC here, it is all-in-one vs components. Apple will usually be more than happy to sell you a mac pro with no drive, video card, RAM, etc, and let you configure it on your own. All you have to do is call the Apple store.
      Now, granted, this is only on the high end systems, and I have already admitted that Apple has a gaping hole in their lineup at the low end that the mac mini really does not adequately address. But one must compare apples to apples, not oranges, so to speak. This is a reasonable complaint. It was never the topic of discussion here, however.

    37. @ DeusExMachina
      Surprisingly, I find myself defending our scrotum-submitting admin here.

      The iMac is the only system Apple offers in the mid-price range, hence the comparison. If you disallow the iMac (as not being apples-to-apples), then the DIY computer wins by default as Apple offers no competition whatsoever.

      Face it. Apple Macs, even the Mac Pro towers, have nowhere near the configuration flexibility of a DIY system. And speaking of the towers, I just visited Apple’s web site and tried to configure a minimal tower. The configurator doesn’t let you omit the hard drive, DVD drive, or video card. One Gig of RAM is the minimum. And the fact that you can upgrade internal components with third-party items once you own a Mac doesn’t help with the initial cost.

      Assuming you could even convince the Apple store to sell you a stripped down tower, do you suppose it would be reasonably priced? If this were feasible, don’t you think we would have heard about it by now? The DIYers would be all over it.

      Apple just doesn’t want to help hobbyists troubleshoot systems filled with third-party hardware. Neither do they want the adverse publicity that would arise when the highly vocal owners of these bastard systems complain about lack of support. Better to ignore that market altogether. It’s that simple.

    38. None of you guys are married, are you…

    39. Frank can suck my balls.com

    40. “I have not failed to address it. His system will not significantly outperform the imac on many important benchmarks, and it will most certainly not outperform the mac pro let alone far outperform it. Just because he says so does not make it so. I have not danced around a single issue. I HAVE chosen to concentrate on the issue at hand and to not allow the admin to switch the discussion to another topic to avoid the fact that he is wrong. This is NOT dancing around an issue.”

      You have too failed to address it. In his original post and his original article, the admin brings up that ‘he hasnt brought up overclocking to be fair’. An overclocked Core2Quad, which can easily be pushed close to 4Ghz with good air cooling will SMOKE the MacPro and any iMac on ALL benchmarks. AND do it for $1500 or less.

      You’d better recheck your knowledge of modern processors before you go making claims like that.

      “People like the admin like to think that it is some great technical feat that they “build” their own machine. Being that this involves little more than knowing which way to turn a philips head screwdriver, and inserting rectangular plugs into like sockets, I fail to see why this is any kind of accomplishment. I wired my own when I was 12 in 1978 from separate ICs, resistors, transistors, capacitors, and wire-wrap perfboard and programmed it with hardwired toggle switches and a SPST read/write switch. Output was read off eight bus sensing LEDs (ah the glory days of the Z-80!) That is building your own. Mounting a logic board in a prefitted case and plugging in a prefabricated power supply isn’t.”

      Here we go. You happened to be capable of using a solder iron when the Z-80 was around so you think you’re better than everyone who didnt. With this paragraph, you show have the same chip on your shoulder the the admin has with non-DIY mac fans!

      Personally, this is kind of offensive. I’ve built all my own PC’s, as well as a few for friends and its a far more involved process than “knowing which way to turn a philips head screwdriver, and inserting rectangular plugs into like sockets,”. You completely forget the research that needs to be done picking out the best components, overclocking, case modding, or any of the other details that can make building a PC an involved, yet fun process.

      Again, dancing around issues that dont prove your point.

    41. “As much as a Mac suits my purpose, there are people for whom the Mac is not appropriate. I won’t attempt dissuade someone who is willing to make the trade-off of building their own PC rather than buying a Mac. But I do find it unreasonable when DIY enthusiasts insult Mac owners (who have no desire to become experts on computer innards) for choosing a computer that meets their needs right out of the box. DIY PCs are great for technogeeks, but the Mac is the Computer for the Rest of Us”

      I have to agree with Brett here, that if you don’t have a desire to spend time configuring a computer then a Mac certainly is a valid choice among many other OEM maufacturers. While many of the articles on this site are written in a scathing, and sometimes insultive, manner I have repeatedly commented that if what you want is a general purpose machine and dont want to fiddle with the technical aspects of it, then a Mac is indeed a fine choice.

      My problem is with Apple’s marketing stance, their subtle mocking of those who choose to use a competitive platform, and their outright lies when describing the performance capabilites of their products. They bully journalists, their rabid legal team goes after anyone and everyone who dares make an alleged infringement against them.

      They are far from the benign company that their seething and maniacal fanbase would have others believe (and will chastise them if they dont) – they are, in fact, opposed to the very concepts that have come to define the personal computing industry and our society as a whole. Fair pricing through competition, and freedom of choice being the first two that come to mind.

    42. I’m married, that’s why I have to self masterbate daily…

    43. @Admin:
      Apple Bullying Journalists? Perhaps you are referring to Apple’s attempts to prevent their trade secrets from being leaked by rumor sites. I guess I don’t find that as nearly as egregious as the way that for years, the mainstream and industry press was complicit in a massive FUD campaign against Apple and the Mac. It was a massive echo chamber of misinformation. Countless Wintel advertising dollars and press junkets had a way of influencing coverage.

      This anti-Mac persecution, more than anything, is the reason there are so many “maniacal” Mac advocates. We felt that if Apple was driven out of business, we would lose our wonderful way of computing. Something of value was slowly being stolen from us and we wouldn’t stand for it.

      Now that things have turned around, ands Macs are likely here to stay, I would hope that Mac fans would cool off a bit and enjoy their “victory”.

      Apple’s ads which you find so offensive are just trying to counteract the false perceptions attributed to the Mac for so many years. It’s not easy getting people to raise their heads out of the sand and seriously consider switching computer platforms. If you find the commercials upsetting, imagine how we felt during all those dark years, and have a little empathy.

    44. Now, as for you, DeusExMachina:

      Your moronic beration of my initial article and subsequent replies has done nothing to aggrandize your weak and pathetic attempts to find fault with the core ideas behind the ‘building a mac killer’ article, or this blog as a whole.

      By obcessing over fatuous minutia and focusing on, as you put it ‘senseless ad hominem’ you have clearly made it apparent to all who read your postings that your intellect is nothing but a decrepit and festering pile of the rankest ordure. Your words paint a picture of mental ineptness that is as lugubrious as this site is calumnious, as is evident by your banal and painfully insipid demeanor.

      At first I felt a altruistic pity for your pathetic and invidious attacks against my posts, but now that your fatuity has resonated to such a caustic frequency I feel obligated to bring some sense of versimilitude to your mindlessly deplorable rhetoric.

      Please, for the sake of your own decency, address the following:

      “First, it is more than that the admin leaves things out. He states his purpose as a component by component price comparison, and then completely fails to do so. More importantly, he did not just leave out a few features, he mischaracterized a great number of them… ”

      Your initial post certainly did bring with it a credibility that has since been lacking as Ive wasted countless minutes skimming over your imbecilic literary drivel. You brought to the attention the fact that I did not adequately spec out the DIY system to all of the features of the iMac, and you were indeed correct. However, in subsequent replies I have more than rectified this error. You claim that there has not been one valid point made, but you are greviously in error and despite your loathsome griping this is the hard truth. And you know it. The component-by-component comparison was achieved with this list from my reply to your original charge:

      https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=6243631&WishListTitle=iMac+Killer+Basic+2

      I fail to see how any of the components listed ‘mischaracterize’ those of your precious iMac. I’m sure you will say that the monitor doesn’t have a glossy screen. Or that the webcam listed there has different specs than the iSight. Or perhaps that I didnt select a slot load DVD burner (which would be an act of idiocy when building a tower based machine) – regardless, this is far from a ‘great number’ as you have stated. The core components and basic functionality of the DIY system are more than comparable to the higher priced system from Apple. You make, at best, a trivial complaint against an argument that has not only rectified your initial issue but proven you wrong to the point of delerium. And yet you continue to harp on irrelevant peculirarities and chastise those who disagree with your pro-Apple gasgonade, which affirms your nascent and piteous emotional constitution.

      That aside, note that that price list is now $70 less than it was a few weeks ago. Further proving the fact that by building a DIY PC
      you can assure you are paying market value for each component. Contrast this with the price of the iMac over at MacMall:

      http://www.macmall.com/macmall/families/newimac/

      Oh look – it’s still $1144.

      “People like the admin like to think that it is some great technical feat that they “build” their own machine. Being that this involves little more than knowing which way to turn a philips head screwdriver, and inserting rectangular plugs into like sockets, I fail to see why this is any kind of accomplishment. I wired my own when I was 12 in 1978 from separate ICs, resistors, transistors, capacitors, and wire-wrap perfboard and programmed it with hardwired toggle switches and a SPST read/write switch. Output was read off eight bus sensing LEDs (ah the glory days of the Z-80!) That is building your own. Mounting a logic board in a prefitted case and plugging in a prefabricated power supply isn’t.”

      When have I ever made it sound like it was a ‘great technical feat’ to assemble your own PC? Can you reference any specific statements, or will you just continue in your commiserable attempt to fabricate reality even further by making erroneous claims and stating them as fact? If anything, the ‘building a mac killer’ article was written is so that the layman PC user would see that building a computer from components was not a difficult affair. But then, you go even further by having the unmitigated gaul to insult the DIY PC community by ‘failing to see how how this is any kind of accomplisment’ – as if people who choose to design and build their own system don’t have a right to be proud of the care and effort they’ve put into their projects.

      Are you saying that because a kid today doesnt need to have a thorough knowledge of electronics or a tab a Radio Shack to build a computer he or she is any less intelligent, any less dedicated, or any less impassioned by the process of designing and building their own system? I think its very cool that you had the skills to do that at 12 years old, in fact – despite my obvious detest for your online personna I still have the decency and admiration for your claimed technical skill to say that I am impressed. But for you to think that a custom built machine of today is any less personal to the builder than your breadboard PC of yesteryear…I guess it just goes to show that wisdom does not come with age by default.

      “As to the vocabulary issue, I am not incorrect. if you want to get technical, you are discussing the issue of reflexive verb construction. This construction is not correct with the word gesticulate (blah blah blah.)”

      Yes, please DeusExMachina. Let’s get technical. You claim you are holding back the sheer power of your intellect from us – so by all means let loose this mighty torrent of scholarly knowledge! Do you know what a reflexive verb is? “Gesticulate” has both transitive and intransitive forms and as such, can make complete sense when expressed as ‘self gesticulating’. ‘gesticulate’ is not a reflexive verb, and ‘self gesticulating’ is not even a reflexive construction, as the word ‘self’ is not a pronoun. “self gesticulating” is a valid use of the transitive ‘gesticulating’ as applied to the noun ‘self’ and would mean, as stated many times above: “to gesture with the hands to the self”

      It is truly sad that either you can not comprehend the intracies of your own vernacular, or you are one of those pathetically poignant individuals who can not admit when they are wrong.

      “This is not the issue. Macs in general can be upgraded just as easily as their PC brethren. Just not the all-in-one imac. The issue is not mac vs. PC here, it is all-in-one vs components. Apple will usually be more than happy to sell you a mac pro with no drive, video card, RAM, etc, and let you configure it on your own. All you have to do is call the Apple store.”

      So the only way you can purchase an upgradable Mac would be to buy a barebones $2400 MacPro? Really? Does this mean when the Yorkfield chip comes out in Janurary I could swap out the CPU and motherboard and continue running Leopard and not break my OS install? Can I get new, inexpensive Nvidia 8800GT video card and use it under OSX? Can I? No. Macs aren’t as upgradable as a DIY system, and never will be – because they’re built with planned obsolescence. All OEM systems are. Surely you know this with your vast array of technical knowledge? Kind of like you knew how WinXP 64 worked with 32bit apps? What, did your understanding of how a computer works cease when you put the solder iron down back in 1978?

      “I have not failed to address it. His system will not significantly outperform the imac on many important benchmarks, and it will most certainly not outperform the mac pro let alone far outperform it. Just because he says so does not make it so. I have not danced around a single issue. I HAVE chosen to concentrate on the issue at hand and to not allow the admin to switch the discussion to another topic to avoid the fact that he is wrong. This is NOT dancing around an issue.”

      Again, a fallacious statement. The system will most definitely outperform the iMac on ALL benchmarks once all the resources available to the DIY builder are implemented. Overclocking primarily – one of the primary reasons to build your own machine with a new Intel Core2 chip – even that 2.0Ghz Allendale could easily be pushed to 3.0Ghz with the stock cooler and included system components. I know, I know – you’ll say I didnt bring it up in the original article. And I didnt, because I was trying to make a fair comparison – but since you want to nitpick…

      Jack Allen is completely correct by stating that a Core2Quad based system would destroy all but the most heavily equipped (and heinously expensive) Mac Pro on any benchmarks thrown at it. A Kentsfield based quad core can normally be pushed to 3.6Ghz and beyond with good air cooling. That, combined with faster unbuffered RAM, faster hard drives, better video hardware, and a much better upgrade path make it a real price/performance winner over anything Apple has to offer. I was saving this for ‘Building A Mac Killer Pt 3′ though, so I must digress…

      “Why not take it to the next level, then, pointing out that I can beat his ass, and offering to do so? Would you find that an appropriate response? Seemingly. But again, why bother?”

      I’ll assume this wasnt a rhetorical question and answer it for you: Because you are incapable of doing so. Either by intellectual deficiency or just a lack of genuine creativity, your rigid replies and bromidic monolog only reinforce the fact that you are mentally inept. Yes, you can beat my ass – you just don’t wanna. The fox didnt want the grapes either.

      “Pwned is in the eye of the beholder.”

      You do realize that only 12 year old world of warcraft nerds use the word ‘pwned’, right? Was that statement an attempt to make you seem cool and ‘down with the youth culture?’ Because…it didnt. For someone so obcessed with diction, it is laughable that you have chosen to use a term that immediately designates you either hoplessly out of touch with current culture, or a disconsolate pseudo intellectual halfwit.

      Listen, DeusExMachina. You are posting on a site entitled “Apple Can Suck My Balls”. If you don’t have the cullions to play in my sandbox, or the psychological fortitude to withstand these sesquipadalian assults, then please go to a place where your bourgeois verbiage and underserved sense of hubris will be received by someone who gives a shit.

    45. Mommy are you crying? Did Daddy call you a diconsolate pseudo intellectual halfwit again?

    46. Woa – I’m going to use this thread as the basis for a movie script:

      “When Nerds Attack”

      lol…

    47. This discussion has spun way out of control…but that last post by admin was suitable for framing. Can I get that on a mug in your ‘ACSMB store’ ? :P

    48. @Brett,

      You are missing my point. The problem here is that the admin stated his purpose in the original article as proving that Apple rips people of with the imac, and that all the components in the imac can be had for significantly less. He completely fails to do this, and in a classic bait and switch, changes the argument midstream into all-in-one vs. DIY. This is at best disingenuous.
      I am not defending the imac vs DIY. If I were I would have made entirely different arguments. I personally would not choose an imac, for a number of reasons, but the all-in-one, for any number of people, is a superior solution.
      As for the bare bones mac pro, as I said in my last post, you have to call the online store, at the number on the site. You can not order it like this through the online configuration page.
      DIYer, FTMP are Windows and Linux users. Most mac users are satisfied with the online configuration options.
      As for Apple having to troubleshoot systems with third party add-ons, why do you suppose this would be any different than the current situation. People already add third party add-ons, and if they are responsible for “issues” it is the problem of that manufacturer, not Apple, though Apple Care actually will try to help you out.

      @ JackAllen:
      Again, I have not failed to address it. I addressed it several times. Now you bring up a separate issue, over clocking, and claim that this shows I am dancing around the issue. Over clocking was NEVER an issue, as your quote points out. So my not addressing it is NOT dancing around an issue.
      But let’s address it. First, by over clocking, you are changing the base parameters of the discussion at hand, so it is hardly a relevant argument. You are not comparing Apple’s to available Wintel systems, you are comparing stock Apple’s to wintel hacks. This is a bogus comparison. A bogus comparison that is based on ignorance, as it assumes that you can not over clock the mac. Why is it that you assume this to be true? Certainly not because it has any truth to it, since it is not much harder to over clock the mac than it is to over clock a PC with a motherboard that does not have BIOS support for over clocking. Take the heat sink off, remove the processor, and perform processor specific mods. For instance, on the Xeon (the one that is freshest in my memory) a small piece of insulating material (such as electrical tape) on the sixth contact up from the bottom right bypasses the chips BSEL, thus over clocking it. This works just fine on the mac pro, even the 8 core beasties.
      It is not I who needs to recheck my knowledge of processors.

      As to the rest, first of all I didn’t use a soldering iron, I used a wire wrap tool. I specifically said “perfboard,” remember? I have no chip on my shoulder. I never made it an issue that I can ACTUALLY build a computer (and have.) It becomes an issue, however, when people keep acting as if their ability to turn a philips head screwdriver to mount a logicboard somehow makes them special, and puts them in a position to criticize and belittle those who chose not to.

      “Personally, this is kind of offensive. I’ve built all my own PC’s, as well as a few for friends and its a far more involved process than “knowing which way to turn a philips head screwdriver, and inserting rectangular plugs into like sockets,”. You completely forget the research that needs to be done picking out the best components, overclocking, case modding, or any of the other details that can make building a PC an involved, yet fun process.”

      Oh please. No it is not. First, building the PC is a separate issue from picking components, and second, picking components is hardly much more involved. Overclocking is trivial, either via the BIOS/EF, or through simple hardware mods, such as above, and case modding is a personal choice, and both not necessary and subject to personal esthetics, and thus irrelevant to the issue of the difficulty of building a machine. While it may have much to do with making it a fun, involved process, it has nothing to do with the generic argument about how difficult it is to build PCs.
      As I mentioned earlier, I build them myself. In fact I have a small sideline business building custom mod machines with custom design cases using the Via mini-ITX motherboard. I am particularly partial to cases I have made using illuminated glass block. While fabricating these machines can be a detailed and time-consuming process, it has nothing to do with how hard it is to build a PC.
      What issue is it that you claim I am dancing around now?

    49. @ admin:
      In what way was my critique of your original article moronic? I have backed up every point I made with empirical data, and shown your post and your followup to be in error. You have failed to address key issues. More to the point, you failed to even address your initial, stated, goal, namely a component by component comparison of the imac with a DIY system, but instead performed a bait and switch, changing the topic midstream to all-in-ones vs. prebuilt machines, and acted as if your weak support of your position on that topic proved your initial point, when, in fact, it wasn’t even relevant to it.

      I was not “obcessing” [sic] over minutia any more than is appropriate for a discussion about a part by part comparison. In fact, your failure to do so is why your article itself is a failure, as these minutia are the essence of such a comparison. My “focusing” on your continued resort to ad hominem, far from making my intellect appear decrepit, serves to highlight the logical fallacy of yours. Ad hominem is, after all the PREMIER logical fallacy.
      That said, you may wish to re-consult your reference sources for the proper usage of the term lugubrious, though calumnious is quite an apt word choice. I could not have said it better. Kudos to you for characterizing your site as slanderous, and prone to the making of false and defamatory statements to damage reputation rather than make coherent argument.
      Seriously, get a better thesaurus. Or try looking up the big words before you use them. What do you think “versimilitude” [sic] or “literary” mean, anyway?

      As to the things you wish for me to address: You claim that you addressed the errors of the initial post. You did not; subsequent replies showed that your substitutions did not meet the relevant criteria. As pointed out in two separate replies, your revised list is NOT a true component by component comparison, your “failure” to see this notwithstanding. These differences are not “trivial,” as you claim, as the price difference, starting at your quote of around $1000 (with shipping) is quickly eaten up by these “trivial” differences. As for being $70 less now, you may also wish to note that not all the items can even be bought at the present time. This has been true each time I checked the list.
      But even using your quoted price, the small, some might even say “trivial” $144 difference easily reflects what many people would feel the labour that goes into the building of the system is worth. Add on the free software, centralized tech support, and other amenities, and you would be hard pressed to find many computer buyers that find this price differential impressive. And again, this list only comes in where it does because you build a tower system instead of an all-in-one. All-in-ones require design choices that increase system costs, so, again, your argument really boils down to DIY towers vs. all-in-ones, which is NOT the argument you originally claimed to be making.
      Far from backing your point, the small price differential of $144 shows that Apple is NOT ripping off people, but giving them a really good deal, considering the components they ARE actually getting. If you don’t want those components, specifically chosen for the all-in-one form factor, don’t get an imac. Your argument, initially about pricing, deteriorates into one about design preference. And again, the $144 price difference is actually much less, anyway.

      “… or will you just continue in your commiserable attempt to fabricate reality even further by making erroneous claims and stating them as fact?”
      “Commiserable?” Please. This usage of this word as an adjective modifying “attempt” borders on babble.
      To address your request for reference, I only need point to your next statement, “as if people who choose to design and build their own system don’t have a right to be proud of the care and effort they’ve put into their projects.”
      It is not “as if” they don’t have a right, it IS that they don’t have one. It is nothing to be proud of, it is not a significant accomplishment, any more than putting together a bedroom set from IKEA.

      I am not saying anything about kids today. But putting together a PC from components is simply not at the same level as building a computer from electronic parts. And I am sorry, but I find it very difficult to accept that a machine pieced together from ordered parts has any where near the emotional impact of wiring together ICs, throwing toggle switches for eight hours to enter program code into RAM, and then hitting a run switch and having data read off LEDs. Be serious. It is not even remotely the same.
      (BTW, as an aside, if you want to build a similar machine, you could try to find a copy of the book “How to Build Your Own Self-Programming Robot”, which details construction plans for a machine similar to ones I built.
      http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Your-Self-Programming-Robot/dp/0830612416
      Published when I was… 12)
      This is NOT to say that a kid who builds his own PC has not accomplished something. It IS to say that an adult who has done so, barring those who work for Goodwill, have not. It is also to say that it is not quite the same thing as making your own computer.

      And so now we get to more foolishness:
      “Yes, please DeusExMachina. Let’s get technical. You claim you are holding back the sheer power of your intellect from us – so by all means let loose this mighty torrent of scholarly knowledge! Do you know what a reflexive verb is? “Gesticulate” has both transitive and intransitive forms and as such, can make complete sense when expressed as ’self gesticulating’. ‘gesticulate’ is not a reflexive verb, and ’self gesticulating’ is not even a reflexive construction, as the word ’self’ is not a pronoun. “self gesticulating” is a valid use of the transitive ‘gesticulating’ as applied to the noun ’self’ and would mean, as stated many times above: ‘to gesture with the hands to the self’”

      *Sigh. Where to begin? You ask if I know what a reflexive verb is. From your diatribe above, I am forced to ask you the same, since clearly you do not. You asked me to get technical, so her goes:
      A reflexive verb is one in which the subject and direct object are the same. In English, some verbs are inherently reflexive, such as masturbate, which is why “self masturbate” makes no sense. Other verbs are made reflexive in English by virtue of grammatical construction, usually with the use of the word “self,” Apparently you read a definition of reflexive, came away with this notion of “reflexive pronoun” and thought you understood. While in a broader sense, a reflexive verb is one whose *grammatical* patient (grammatical object) is a a reflexive pronoun, this does NOT mean that the reflexive pronoun actually has to occur in the sentence. English derives its reflexive verbs by prefixing the word “self,” as in self-immolate. If a man did this, one could say he immolated himself

    50. “Kudos to you for characterizing your site as slanderous, and prone to the making of false and defamatory statements to damage reputation rather than make coherent argument.”

      Finally, you get the point.

    51. And yet again, for whatever reason, this site has cut off my post. The rest follows:

      If a man did this, one could say he immolated himself {–reflexive pronoun. This is a reflexive CONSTRUCTION. “Immolate” here, however is NOT a reflexive verb. In English, “self-immolate” is the reflexive VERB FORM.
      Further, gesticulate being transitive or intransitive (and many sources, including the Cambridge dictionary of English, would claim gesticulate is purely intransitive) has no bearing on the issue at hand, or on the “sense” of the term “*self-gesticulate.” Its use in the sentence at issue is intransitive. You apparently do not know what these terms mean, either, since “to gesture with the hands to the self,” as you put it, has no direct object, and using “gesticulate” here would also be intransitive.

      “It is truly sad that either you can not comprehend the intracies of your own vernacular, or you are one of those pathetically poignant [sic] individuals who can not admit when they are wrong.”

      Leaving aside the incorrect use of the word “poignant,” I have to say that this statement is more aptly applied to yourself.

      “So the only way you can purchase an upgradable Mac would be to buy a barebones $2400 MacPro? Really? Does this mean when the Yorkfield chip comes out in Janurary I could swap out the CPU and motherboard and continue running Leopard and not break my OS install? Can I get new, inexpensive Nvidia 8800GT video card and use it under OSX? Can I? No. Macs aren’t as upgradable as a DIY system, and never will be – because they’re built with planned obsolescence. All OEM systems are. Surely you know this with your vast array of technical knowledge? Kind of like you knew how WinXP 64 worked with 32bit apps? What, did your understanding of how a computer works cease when you put the solder iron down back in 1978?”

      The $2400 macpro is not bare bones. It has drive, GPU, etc.. To get bare bones systems, as I have said, you need to call the store. As to the rest, if Apple decides to put out a Kentsfield-type logicboard, then there is no reason that it would break a current OS install. After all, Intel has already tested standard OSX installs on Penryn reference platforms, and it runs fine. More importantly, it also has OSX running on Nehalem reference boards. This obviates the need for bothering with Yorkfield for the high end 8-core machines. But if you have a non-Apple motherboard with a Yorkfield, I know no reason, after performing the standard tricks to install OSX on non-Apple hardware in the first place, why it should not work fine. Why, do you?
      As far as specific cards go, there are also OSX specific cards that you can’t use with Windows. There are a number of cards that don’t work with Vista. So what? No one is claiming that there are not many more specific hardware options for Windows machines. That is not the issue. You could make the same argument, perhaps more so, with your DIY box running Linux. The issue is the availability of upgrade paths.
      Your planned obsolescence argument makes no sense. Just because specific cards don’t have OSX drivers does not mean that no future cards will, either. Future cards that do will work in the old machine. There is no obsolescence. Besides, we covered that issue when we discussed resale value. The fact that mac users hold on to their machines far longer that Windows users has clear implications regarding this issue.
      As to that last bit, seeing as how I was right regarding how WoW64 works (32-bit apps in an emulation layer) your point makes no sense.

      The performance/overclocking issue has already been addressed, above.

      “I’ll assume this wasnt a rhetorical question and answer it for you: Because you are incapable of doing so. Either by intellectual deficiency or just a lack of genuine creativity, your rigid replies and bromidic monolog [sic] only reinforce the fact that you are mentally inept. Yes, you can beat my ass – you just don’t wanna. The fox didnt want the grapes either.”

      No, it was not a rhetorical question, and I was not speaking figuratively. In the context of the quote, it should have been quite clear that I was being literal. As far as the figurative meaning of “beat his ass,” being that you can’t even bother to correctly spell many of the words you use, I find your characterization of myself as “mentally inept” a tad ironic.

      “You do realize that only 12 year old world of warcraft nerds use the word ‘pwned’, right? Was that statement an attempt to make you seem cool and ‘down with the youth culture?’”

      A.D.D. anyone? I was replying to a SPECIFIC post that used that SPECIFIC word.

      “For someone so obcessed [sic] with diction, it is laughable that you have chosen to use a term that immediately designates you either hoplessly out of touch with current culture, or a disconsolate pseudo intellectual halfwit.”

      For someone so obsessed with MY diction, it is laughable that you don’t check to see what I was talking about before you launch into your diatribes. It is even more laughable that you don’t check your spelling. Firefox?
      As for testicles, I have yet to back down from a single one of your ill-directed, feeble-minded attacks. So I fail to see where your last paragraph comes from. Indeed, if you can’t handle being called to the mat, perhaps it is you who should grow a pair.

    52. “Finally, you get the point.”

      Oh, I got the point long ago. I just had higher expectations.

    53. “Oh, I got the point long ago. I just had higher expectations.”

      So sorry to disappoint, you warthog faced buffoon. :P

    54. @ DoucheExVagina:

      You have higher expectations for a site named, apple.cansuckmyballs? I think you should reset expectations, though I know it could be tough for a person 40+ in age to adjust to this modern world of ours.

      In any event, you do realize your 40+ years old, right? One would think a person of your age would be out doing, oh I don’t know, something responsible and worthwhile?

      I saw an episode of SouthPark a few weeks back where Cartman imagined Kyle sucking his balls, and then that imagination appeared right in front of them. You remind me of Kyle, Mr. Douche. Absorbing the testicles of one, Mr. Admin, and enjoying every second of it.

      A side of balls with that Turkey, Mr. Douche? Gobble Gobble!

    55. Good job lowering the collective IQ of the entire world.
      And congratulations on the homophobia.

    56. Mr. DoucheVagina,

      I love both gays and lesbians, so much like your previous posts, you are incorrect in your judgments. And staying firm to your earlier non-nonsensical ramblings, you fail to stay true to the issues brought to you. Rather, you make radical posts about nothing in general. IQ’s and homosexuality in this case.

      But really, higher expectations for a site named apple.cansuckmyballs.com? Honestly, if my IQ is tugging down the worlds average, yours is like 10,000lbs of meandering lard slamming the score deep into the earth below.

    57. Non-nonsensical?
      I think that alone speaks for itself.

    58. Keep avoiding the real issue, Mr. DoucheVagina….

    59. What “issue?” You didn’t bring up any “issue.”
      You just acted like a typical internet idiot, talking trash because you know you don’t have to see the person face to face. It’s actually rather pathetic. It’s truly sad if that is your regular level of discourse. You offered nothing of value to the discussion, just weak, infantile flaming, and garbled English; you certainly didn’t raise any “issue.”

    60. Mr. Vagina,

      The issue= “But really, higher expectations for a site named apple.cansuckmyballs.com?”.

      I know how easy it can be to forget, considering it’s listed right there in the thread and all (the scroll button definitely isn’t for novice users).
      Here you go, this link should help:
      http://tinyurl.com/3c2677

      To me, the person who responds to weak, infantile flaming would be more an idiot than the one who is actually posting it. Hmmm, when was the last time I argued with an infant? There was that one time at the bowling alley…
      Don’t worry Mr. DoucheVagina, I would be angry too if I worked my entire life to be good at something and then some kid does 10 minutes of research and ends up knowing more. Plus- admin told you to suck his balls. Ouch.

      Keep your chin up Mr. Vagina.

    61. And again, dumbass, I showed I was right on every point, and backed it up with actual data.

      As for your “issue,” even going by infantile comedic standards, this thread fails to meet even minimal expectations.

      And not being homophobic, I hardly see how someone telling you to suck their balls is harmful.

      Unless you’re an idiot.

    62. I gief up, i r teh lame ballsux0r. :’/

    63. Well, aren’t you Mr. Tricky, using someone else’s username and posting.

      So we all agree. Idiot.

    64. The verdict. The options are endless when it comes to getting a PC. One could get a cheap ass PC, or one could get a pimped up one, better than a mac.

      PC = Freedom. Choice. Flexibility.
      Mac = Confinement coming in good looking (I admit) cases (and a very few of them)

    65. DeuxExMachinaSucksBalls on December 18th, 2007 at 3:03 pm

      Amen to that brother!!

    66. The verdict seems to be that Windows defenders are idiotic, immature, uninformed, lying, unprincipled pieces of crap.
      The options are indeed endless. Commodity garbage stretching from horizon to horizon.
      While Apple may not offer a cheap ass mac, the idea that your pimped up PC is better than a mac is just plain stupid. Ever go to a defcon? You will be hard pressed to find a more computer savvy group (socially not quite so much so.) Ever seen how many macbooks carried by the attendees? There are very good reasons that they choose macs. Do biomedical research much? Obviously not since macs dominate that field as well. Even back in the days of the G5, mac clusters outperformed ALL supercompters created with PC clusters in both power and total cost of implementation.

      PC = Piece of Crap

    67. I think the vertict is that you are full of more shit than a Christmas Goose. Which is fitting, considering the season and all. Listen here, DeuxExCrapina – Apple sucks, macs suck, a pimped out PC destroys your feces engorged Crapintosh on every level, and you are one big stupid dope.

      Have a good holiday man, thanks for stopping by! :)

    68. And as usual, you make lots of statements, and don’t back them up with facts, or back them up with BS. Again, I have shown you wrong, with actual numbers, on EVERY post you have made. You start with one argument, then change it midstream so that your infantile audience can’t see the switch, and then act like because you proved the latter point, that you actual proved the former. And you can’t even bother to get the second argument right. In actual fact, you really didn’t accomplish either.
      The verdict is that you are a juvenile moron, as evidenced by your need to resort to name-calling in lieu of an actual argument, and your inability to understand even the things you yourself post.
      The world is full of internet tough-guys who debase the entire species by virtue of their very existence, who feel perfectly comfortable acting like asses, treating people rudely and with total disrespect while they hide like cowards behind the anonymity of the net. In real life your behaviour would quickly be limited by you repeatedly getting your ass kicked.
      Far from being original, creative, or even remotely humorous, like you seem to think you are, you are a dime a dozen, boring, stupid, crass, and infantile.
      You can’t even manage to stand out from amounst the rest of the sheeple.

    69. And yet, you continue to return time and time again to voice your patheically weak arguments and delightfully mornonic drivel. It is all good, DeusExMachina – I have accepted the fact that the gods have created you for my personal amusement.

      “In real life your behaviour would quickly be limited by you repeatedly getting your ass kicked.”

      This is real life, son. And you’re only kicking your own ass, whilst mine remains taut and supple – which is why I think you keep coming around here.

      “You can’t even manage to stand out from amounst the rest of the sheeple.”

      Oh but I have my child, I have indeed. I’m not even keeping this site updated, and average 1000 hits a day. What have you done with your time, but add to my success? My adsemse account thanks you, little man:)

    70. That you have yet been incapable of mounting even a rudimentary response to my suppsedly “pathetically weak arguments” merely serves to highlight the stupidity of your replies.
      The fact that you think your idiotic blog is real life is what is pathetic. As in, if you are kicking my ass, it must be while I am asleep. I am not talking figurative ass-kicking, I am talking leaving you in the hospital ass-kicking, which is what acting like you act and talking to people like you do online get you IN REAL LIFE. Then again, coward, I highly doubt you have the balls to act this way in real life, instead preferring to cower behind your keyboard.

      1000 hits does not make you stand out from the sheeple. My Myspace page gets more than that. And you clearly don’t understand adsemse [sic]. You clearly have few if any CPM ads, and as I never click through on your site, you get no CPC revenue from me, either. Nice try though. About as pathetic as wearing your ignorance on your sleeve like you did in your post on Vista vs. OSX security. (Care to guess what machines the “winner” of that security “contest” owns? He owns three, one a macbook, two, another mac, three, a third mac. Not surprising, seeing as he did NOT say Vista was more secure.)
      Your posts are not only FUD, they’re just plain, old, garden-variety dogshit.

    71. “You clearly have few if any CPM ads, and as I never click through on your site, you get no CPC revenue from me, either.”

      No, but you do add free content to this blog in the form of heinously ridiculous literary stool, so it certainly helps. And who are you calling ‘sheeple’? You think that, because you own a Mac you are somehow better than your fellow man? While sad, i suppose it is an accepted stance among fervid Mac freaks like you. You spent all this money on a super-cool mundane piece of white shiny crap, and that vindicates your illusion of your superiority among the rest of the human race, right? You’re a no talent freak, just like the rest of your conformistic, unshaven, quasi-beatnick loser slice of dog shit mac using community.

      “1000 hits does not make you stand out from the sheeple. My Myspace page gets more than that. And you clearly don’t understand adsemse [sic].”

      What’s really funny, and a common theme among raging dorks like yourself, is that when you are losing an argument you immediately jump on grammatical mistakes. U can redecule mah spellin all ya want, DooEahMakrina – Adsemse is buying my lunch everyday, what’s your MySpace doing for you?

      What you don’t realize, DeuxExCrapola, is that IN REAL LIFE I wouldnt want to kick your ass. Not because I’d be incapable of doing so, quite the contrary – as I know IN REAL LIFE you are quite a weak and frail little fellow, obcessed with proving your intellect to others by spouting off your mouth, trying to use big words when in reality your liguistic skill is hardly the laudable attribute that you wish it was.

      IN REAL LIFE Id be your boss, and I keep you around as the company mascot. I’d have you dress up like an Apple and we’d roll you down a hill every day at 3pm, then I’d buy you a sub with my Adsense money and smash a MacBook infront of you just to see a tear roll down your chubby little cheek.

      THAT’s Real Life, DeusExMacarina. Me dominating you time and time again just like I do here on ACSMB.com

    72. Adding content, even from me, does not really help your page view, or your CPCs, so once again, you are full of crap. Nice try, though.
      And I am CLEARLY calling YOU sheeple, as you clearly are. You do not formulate your own opinions, you simple regurgitate the pablum, FUD, lies, and disinformation fed to you by others. I don’t think anything of myself because I use macs. I don’t think less of myself because I use Windows, or because I passed the MCSE and A+ certifications, either.
      Let’s look at some more of your stupid assumptions:
      “You spent all this money on a super-cool mundane piece of white shiny crap, and that vindicates your illusion of your superiority among the rest of the human race, right? You’re a no talent freak, just like the rest of your conformistic, unshaven, quasi-beatnick loser slice of dog shit mac using community.”

      1) I have several macs, most of which I spent about $25 on, including my old dual G4. the most I spent was $400 on my FW800 MDD. They are all networked together in an XGrid network to increase MPEG-2 render speed using Compressor.
      2) Calling someone who uses a platform with less than 10% market share conformist from the point of view of a defender of the platform chosen by the vast majority of consumers (sheeple) is absurd.
      3) While I personally hate facial hair, what is your point, exactly, besides being a juvenile idiot?

      “What’s really funny, and a common theme among raging dorks like yourself, is that when you are losing an argument you immediately jump on grammatical mistakes. U can redecule mah spellin all ya want, DooEahMakrina – Adsemse is buying my lunch everyday, what’s your MySpace doing for you?”

      First, it is not a grammatical mistake, nor did I immediately jump on it. Get your facts straight. Second, at 1000 hits per day, and even assuming a 50% clickthrough rate (which is ridiculous) that is a pretty shitty lunch. Eat gumballs much?

      “What you don’t realize, DeuxExCrapola, is that IN REAL LIFE I wouldnt [sic] want to kick your ass. Not because I’d be incapable of doing so, quite the contrary – as I know IN REAL LIFE you are quite a weak and frail little fellow, obcessed [sic] with proving your intellect to others by spouting off your mouth, trying to use big words when in reality your liguistic skill is hardly the laudable attribute that you wish it was. [sic]”

      What you don’t realize, since your language skills are so lacking, is that the issue is your rude behaviour getting YOUR ass kicked. I won’t bother with replying to your stupid attempt at feeling tough, but if you are going to claim linguistic superiority, you should at least proofread the sentence in which you claim it.

      “IN REAL LIFE Id be your boss, and I keep you around as the company mascot. I’d have you dress up like an Apple and we’d roll you down a hill every day at 3pm, then I’d buy you a sub with my Adsense money and smash a MacBook infront of you just to see a tear roll down your chubby little cheek.”

      In real life, I don’t have a boss. In real life, you are still sheeple. In real life, you have failed to make a single factually correct point, or to even back up your points with accurate data. Your dominance is in your dreams. Here is a good book for you:
      http://www.amazon.com/Meeting-Master-Stories-Mastery-Slavery/dp/0802135501/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198181939&sr=8-1
      Get out your vasoline and have at it.

    73. “1) I have several macs, most of which I spent about $25 on, including my old dual G4. the most I spent was $400 on my FW800 MDD. They are all networked together in an XGrid network to increase MPEG-2 render speed using Compressor.”

      How do you like that FW800MDD?

    74. Mr Vagina,

      Admin has made many “factually correct points”, so try not to be such a tosser. It is also quite clear that admin is far superior to you in terms of both intellect and comedic ability.
      What’s great is he has made you look mediocre at best while maintaining a sense of humor. Your posts are far below the quality of what he provides.

      You should try to do this blog some good and post content that actually makes sense. If you cannot meet even this smallest of requirements, please refrain from posting your hate for the world to see. Admin was simply trying to post his opinions, there was no need to call him names.

    75. First, stating something does not make it so, no matter how many times you say it. The central argument has been shown at several places in this thread to be factually and logically incorrect. At no point was this adequately refuted, unless you count saying “I have too,” as an adequate response.
      As for superiority, the opinion of one with your track record is not worth the bandwidth it takes up. And name-calling? Are you serious?!? You need to look a little closer to home if you are going to point that finger. Seriously, you need to learn how to read. Sorry my high standards (like the ability to read) have left you out of the discussion. Funny how you choose to make this accusation in a post you address to “Mr. Vagina.” You really are a complete moron.

      I like my FW800 quite a bit. For a machine as old as it is, it gets quite a lot done.

    76. HAHAHA – your name is PoopScoot!!!

    77. to summarize, i suck balls

    78. DeusExMachina on May 9th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

      big balls

    79. That rss option on your site here is impressive, you should tell people about it in your upcoming post. I haven’t noticed it for the first couple of times, now I’m using it each morning to check on any updates. I’m on a very slow dial-up link in Ohio and it’s quite baffling to sit there and wait for such a long time ’til the page loads… but hey, I just found your rss page and added it to the Google Reader and voil? – I’m always up-to-date! Well pal, keep up the good work and make that rss button a little bigger so that other people can enjoy that as well :-P